Ok and I got nothing against that. In fact if they come to frac a gas zone near you and you don't stand up for your own rights and own drinking water too bad. We all gotta make a living somehow, and we'll drill you in a couple of months and be on to the next neighbor hood by the time you wake up.

But what really gets me is business is always business. We know that and don't object. But if there's proof of anything its that its the private sector we can't trust. Because greed and corruption always gets in the way.

I do have to laugh here though. Here's all this time prtndr denying the science of global warming/climate change but now he's perfectly willing to accept it because the same solar activity that was built into the priovious models have new predictions.

That's just classic and I could see it coming from a mile off.

Its what you get when you don't own your own knowledge.

 

It's a religion. People even use the term "denier".

 

Ah, the science illiterates are at it again. Never mind 120 years of skeptical scientific research into climate change. People that have dedicated their lives to physics and climate, all of a sudden just lied to the public in order to get some kind of "lucrative" research contracts? Sorry folks, there's more money to be made in the peddling of limited resources like fossil fuels. Unfortunately, the use of these is contributing to a very likely problem.

Prtndr, you should study science instead of engineering sometime. it might help you understand basic physical principles of the real world. Not just a basic understanding that helps you just get by. And then, start to read some real scientific papers, many of them. Forget about those watered down reports that the journalists like to print in order to keep people happy by claiming that scientists don't have a clue.

Don't worry about the exact date is when some glacier is supposed to be melted by. Instead, be concerned with what is happening in the world in general and evaluate for yourself as to how consistent the weather events in the world are with global warming. The predictions make many assumptions that will make errors. But, the trends are what is important. Scientists are saying that this years weather events like draughts, flooding, tornadoes are "consistent" with global warming. Perhps in another 10 years many more people will be convinced of global warming as the trends continue.

 

Thank you all for a very entertaining read. I am always stricken dumb at the worship of so called "science" in our modern, spinning world. I can't help but think that the way people currently use the phrase "scientists say" today, is much the same as the way people said "the priests say" in ancient Rome, or I suppose, the way a fundamentalist might say "the bible says."

There is a childlike approach taken towards science today, as though scientists are somehow more than mere mortals, above corruption and bias, above bribery and bitterness. Of course, this is only true of the scientists on your side. Those on the other side are indeed mere mortals, very mere.

Absolute faith in global warming is a festering stupidity, for the simple fact that it is no longer global warming. In order to provide for an unforseen variation in the pattern, the name has been changed to the much broader, and much more convenient "climate change." I would think anyone who believed absolutely in "global warming" should be a little more hesitant to once again believe so readily in people who were wrong once, and not so very long ago. It reminds me of the pastor who so recently predicted the end of the world -- he has now changed the date, and many of his followers have agreed to be duped a second time.

As for those on the opposite side; while it may be true that no one truly knows the answer to exactly how much man influences the climate, it is a practice in ignorance to pretend that he does not influence the climate. I do not see how anyone could charge so cavalierly towards such an obvious wall. One does not need "science" to tell them that man pollutes the atmosphere, one need only hike to the hills near any large city and look upon the thick smog of pollution below.

What possible objection could there be to cleaner air? Who can possibly say "I will keep the air dirty so long as it is not quite dirty enough to die in." There is no logical or moral objection towards a push for cleaner energy, unless you think there is something logical about choosing a less healthy world over its opposite. It is true that man may have very little impact on the climate, it may be true that we could go on like this for ages and not bury ourselves. But just because we can crawl along in filth without major repercussions does not make us any less filthy.

In the end, the only thing that matters is the only thing that is never discussed. Clean air is better than dirty air. Unless anyone wishes to refute that point, that is an end to the matter -- an end to the debate.

Whether or not global warming is true, whether or not scientists are corrupt, these things are simple party firing points that serve no one but the party members. There is no debate to be had about the advantage of clean energy. The only real debate should be about how fast we get there, as there are many zealots who would push the world much faster than it is willing to go.

 

The concensus among leading scientists is that there is no concensus , but hey spend some time in Northern Canada in the dead of winter and and an ice age won't sound so far fetched .

 

One thing that would really help though is people would stop denying what's happening right before their eyes and start looking for solutions to problems like the western US suffering drought conditions and the whole Mississippi basin flooding on the eastern side of the country.


We really should start looking at ideas like pipelining floods waters in the east to lake Mead to supply western water demands.

Also have you ever noticed that deniers scream constantly about the cost of cutting CO2 emissions and yet don't say a word about how much its costing them right now at the checkout counter.

We already took a big hit on many crops last winter and now a huge section of our bread basket is flooded so food prices are going to continue to rise.

 

Hell naw, we need to keep giving money to the Middle East and Israel, and hey, since we are only fighting wars in 4 different countries, we need to start some more, I mean fuck spending money on the US, thats just stupid, we need to spend it on other countries, its the liberal way, if you dont believe that, your ignorant and racist.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...lobal-warming-claims-based-on-false-data.html

Don't get me wrong. I still believe we should clean up our acts.

 

A Lot Of Noise About Nothing

http://takvera.blogspot.com/2011/06/major-drop-in-solar-activity-will-slow.html

 

The global warming thing reminds me of the creationists in a lot of ways. Basically the theory goes that if this one particular thing can somehow be proven to have an exception (global warming / evolution), then their alternative somehow automatically becomes to rule (no environmental limitations / creationism)


The thing is, if you ask people in plain language whether they think we should dump toxic shit in their drinking water, and whether they prefer wearing masks like in industrial china, they will tell you no.


Its cute that people want to play the role of corporate storm troopers, but nobody actually agrees with that position, once it affects themselves.

 

Kind of related, yet not. Something I think is a much more harsh, and possible reality...

http://www.cnn.com/2011/IREPORT/06/17/nauru.colt/index.html?hpt=hp_c1

^^Just different factors happening, running out of resources-thinking we're invincible, abusing our land, etc. Go ahead bash me for being off topic.

 

It's like they're waiting around for someone to tell them what to say, and then they dutifully say it. And say it. And say it.

 

Thats where the corporate storm trooper thing comes in.

The people who have an actual interest in dismantling environmental restrictions are corporations who can save a few bucks.

For the average citizen? No gain whatsoever.

 

Blind allegiance to science scares me a lot less than blind allegiance to anti-science. There's clearly an organized, well-financed effort out there to convince a huge segment of the population that scientists are just a bunch of corrupt, money hungry charlatans. Now, who might stand to gain by undermining our allegiance to the scientific method, and to science itself? I guess when you can undermine science, undermine facts, undermine reality itself, you're free to create your own.

It's interesting to me that you compare belief in science to belief in religion, as if there were some sort of equivalence there. What do YOU believe in, other than whatever the right wing noise machine tells you to believe?

 

I'll never understand how they manage to convince so many people to act against their own interests, and the interests of the communities they live in, in order to further an agenda that's all about corporate greed.

 

Perhaps you should look at who is financing the global warming believers, look up george soros.

Typical progressives fuck heads.

 

So you are on record as being pro-gasmask and toxic drinking water?

 

Uh-huh...George Soros managed to convince the entire scientific community to propagate a fraudulent theory that, once found out, would destroy their credibility and end their careers.

Sure...I believe that.

 

Honey, you are so gullible.

Thinskin

 

Isn't the latest thing global dimming caused by jet trails? Apologies if someone has already posted that - I'm not wading through all the posts.