There are a number of teams that could play a game in TO ... like Buffalo, Cleveland, Detroit and their fans could make the trip no problem with a short drive and there another 5 or 6 teams a bit farther away but still pretty close and just a bit of a drive to get there. There are a lot of Canucks that make the weekly commute to see NFL teams. I used to do it all the time when I was in the Toronto area. The Argonauts sell about 25 to 30 thousand seats for their games if they are lucky and yesterday was sold-out pretty much but there were a lot of corporate seats that were promotional.

Don't kid yourself, Toronto will get a team. It's just a matter of when and the ownership will probably be American like all your former coaches that own teams now in your other league. There will probably be a Canadian part owner as well to make it look better when they ask for 750 million to build a new stadium from the government, lol. I have a connection to the Calgary Stampeders and it does get talked about and the NFL and CFL work in tandem to make sure the CFL stays viable for the good of both leagues and that is the main hurdle but a quality NFL team in TO would fare quite well financially but probably kill the Argonauts and neither one of them wants that right now. I have 2 players that will go in the draft next year and talk to the powers that be periodically and there is always a buzz about it.

 

Maybe in the long run, the answer is to turn the Argonauts into an NFL team. Although there was noise about Buffalo just increasing the number of home games they play in Toronto up to eight...

I think the NFL has undisclosed, and undated, long-term plans to add at least another four international teams, one being in London. (They've admitted they have a long-term desire to see a team in London.) Germany could certainly support an NFL team, as could Mexico and probably Japan. I don't know how you'd rearrange the eight-division setup to make all this work.

 

Very true but the odds reflect the fact that they could still win games and if they were to be set at 1 million to 1 right now, it would border on cruelty to set them at 7 billion to 1 later, lol.

Look at the Cardinals in baseball, they tore up their division in September and were all but written off before that ......... and we now know how that turned out. Not that I give the Colts a snowballs chance in hell but then again nobody ever thought the Cards would make the playoffs, save their true fans and crazy people, lol.

Look at the Eagles as an example, they had shit seasons for some years and still made the playoffs as did some others.

 

That would still leave the CFL one team short although Ottawa has jumped in and out a few times and there is always talk of bringing another team there and that would fill the void if TO were to amalgamate with an NFL franchise.

The NFL/CFL make new conditions frequently about eligibility of players that move from one league to the other and unless it is written into their contract that an owner would allow a player to hone his playing ability here and try out for an NFL team during it, he will not be accepted by either league or be disqualified from playing for the remainder of that season. We play in the same sandbox, just different ends but don't kick sand into each others eyes, lol.

The problem with Europe and the UK is scheduling and the amount of time a team would have to stay over there in order to avoid travel complications and an American team would need to be scheduled to play all those teams in one visit or two at most making them have to basically live there for a month at a time and the same for European/UK teams that would come here. Viable yes ......... practical no.

 

Expansion is tough at the best of times and if some existing teams can't field a quality team now, how the hell are 4 new teams going to. The NFL will move into Canada far sooner then the other side of the pond.

Football is a novalty now since it is rarely played over there but if it became common, the novalty would wear off quickly. Soccer is their pussy sport over there and they will never change that.

*that should ruffle a few feathers, lol*

Canada ........... yes
Europe ............ NO
That's only my opinion.

 

Toronto has been talking NFL fo decades, to no avail. There have been US teams in the CFL but that fizzled, from what the owners have said they do not want to move into Canada. The CFL sure as hell doesn't want them either.

Sorry, but I will wait to be proven wrong.

 

I hear what you are saying and it's valid however times are changing and it's more serious now then it was previously. There are a ton of hurdles but it will happen in time.

It fizzled due to lack of quality players but now that I think about it, the Colts won a Grey Cup one year and that should make NTNC happier, lol ....... although they were Baltimore at the time (Baltimore CFL Colts unofficially, Stallions officially) until the NFL sued the owner of the team for the name.

Still it shows the tolerance of the NFL toward the CFL allowing expansion into the US at the time.

 

Fuck yea! :excited:

 

But your Sucky Cowboys are still ahead of my Pathetic Panthers!

 

I'm sure they will ... Mexico too, I would have thought. But they have their eyes on a London franchise one day - it will be at least a decade away yet. The travel logistics are a major problem, but they can be overcome given enough effort, if everyone wants to.

 

I knew you'd be happy about that!! :excited:

 

It was a time when merger of the two leagues was being investigated, successful US based CFL franchises would have ended in that. Instead the CFL couldn't match the attendance figures and the idea died with then lack of fans.

This has still not changed.

 

Now that I think about it, Toronto is really probably the only Canadian city that could have an NFL franchise right now. You're right, they are very close to Detroit, Buffalo, Cleveland, etc. It would really not be very difficult for teams to travel up there from the NFC/AFC North or East. They're also a very US-like city obviously, with teams like the Blue Jays and Raptors already there and doing pretty well ever since their expansion there. Plus, you would get people from other nearby cities in the US and Canada going to games and being fans. It'd work out pretty damn well.

But honestly, you're kidding yourself if you think the NFL gives a shit about any other leagues before itself. Did you forget what they did to the USFL? If they have to kill the Argonauts to do something they want to do, they will do it without even a second of hesitation or remorse. They're cut-throat businessmen.

That would make sense to me. Though honestly I don't think an NFL franchise would kill the Argonauts given that the CFL and NFL are pretty different sports. Look at how well AFL teams do in the US. The Soul had pretty damn good attendance in Philly.

I don't think they'd go into Japan but I could definitely see an NFL Europe division happening way before an NBA one did. Mexico I could definitely see happening too.

No they wouldn't have to do that at all.

They play one game a week. They'd just travel to whichever city in Europe they were playing and travel back, the same way they do when they play games in the US.

Lol I like that... Pathetic Panthers.

London would definitely make sense. I have no doubt that they could support an NFL franchise but the only question is where would they play and where would they practice? I mean it's one thing to schedule one or even a few games in London at Wembley but wouldn't they have to build a new stadium for the NFL team to play at given how often-used Wembley is? Even if they didn't, they'd still definitely need to build a practice facility somewhere.



I think that the same way Toronto is the only place the NFL could currently expand to into Canada, Mexico City is probably the only place the NFL could expand into Mexico. Both franchises would make a lot of sense.

Here's the way I see it..

Toronto would be first (they would be in the AFC or NFC North I would think)
Then London (could put them in the NFC or AFC East. How's that for a rivalry?)
Then Mexico City. Mexico City would be easier but I'm not sure that they have the fanbase and everything else in place just yet. Has the NFL even ever played a game in Mexico? (AFC or NFC South, maybe AFC or NFC West instead?)

Then after that, first a European division with teams in Germany, France, the existing team in England of course, and another place where football is already big (You'll have to help me out with that one.

Then a Canadian division with teams in Vancouver, Montreal, Toronto of course, and maybe Edmonton just because I can't think of another major major city in Canada.

Then a Mexican/Latin American division, most likely with teams in Mexico, in the major cities


This of course would not happen for decades. I could see Toronto happening within the next 5 years, London within the next ten, Mexico City within the next 15(maybe), then the European division within the next 15-20, Canadian division within the next 20-25, and the Mexican division within the next 50.

Though something like the UFL being big enough to force a merger could throw a wrench in this whole idea.

 

History throws you a curve ball, inside and low.

Attendance is the key, the NFL outdraws the best CFL teams 3 to 1, without comparable numbers having a team up there is not financially viable.

The NHL is a great example of how different the fan bases are, of the top ten franchises in attendance in the 2000/01 season, 7 were in the US. Last year 6 were in the US.

In MLB, Toronto ranks 14th in attendance, despite having one of the largest ballparks. Many of the Toronto Blue Jay fans are from the Buffalo area.

 

Tenguy, you can't possibly compare attendance numbers between the NFL and CFL.

The NHL is the perfect example of why you need to be smarter about where you expand to. Tenguy, as long as the seats get filled, it doesn't matter who is filling them.

14th in attendance where only one team is in Canada isn't exactly bad. They have also been pretty shitty for years now. Also, I think you're very mistaken about the majority of Blue Jays fans being from Buffalo.


Look at it this way: If you only have one team in Canada, you will have every Canadian NFL fan only able to go to one place to watch games. Plus, considering how close it is to US cities near the border, as long as the trip is affordable for people to make often enough, there's no reason they can't make it.

 

I don't think anyone would argue that the NFL cares about the existence of the CFL for the good of Canada. In its current form, the CFL is a useful league for players who might make NFL grade but haven't yet - it fulfils the purpose that the old NFL Europe was designed to have.

So I don't think the NFL would care to kill off the CFL as a whole - although if doing that were a way to expand itself into Canada with no other way to do it, I'm quite sure you would end up being right.

 

Wow, this is like deja vu all over again.

I could have sworn that I answered your post before I dashed out to get more Halloween treats and dessert for dinner. Believe it of not, I found Halloween decorated Canola in Nashville.

Not back to our regularly scheduled issue.

While you are correct that the CFL and NFL attendance are not compatible, you totally make my case for me. The CFL has been in operation for decades with a great following among those who live in the cities with the teams. Yet, they draw very few fans to the games, even when Buffalo plays in Toronto, they drew 18,000 fewer fans than the Bills average at Ralph Wilson Stadium, and they sold those tickets only because of corporate buyers.


You really need to understand the demographics of the Canadian cities, they are not like the US counterparts.

 

And the time spent on flights would kill 2 days a week and they explored it before and came to that conclusion as well and said no fucking way will we lose that much time for practice and proper sleep and be able to be ready for the next team. It's not practical to go that far back and forth each week and they would have to schedule a number of games in Europe to avoid extended travel since most cities there are only a short flight and then training facilities come into play as well. Fuck ......... just put a fucking team in TO and let the Europeans kick soccer balls around and play dead on the grass from a tap on the shins. Fucking pussies don't need NFL.

Seattle, Oakland, LA to Germany is 15 hours with a tail wind, where do they practice ..... in the cargo hold, lol. That's 30 hours a week lost already and add travel to hotels, etc plus another 12-15 hours if they have to go back to another European city the next week or in the playoffs.

PS ......... half the NFL teams can't get ready now for a fucking game with all that time now, imagine how many "Colts" teams we would have then.

 

I didn't realise NFL players practised for 24 hours a day. And here's silly old me thinking they could fly overnight and be asleep...

 

Have you ever tried sleeping on a trans-atlantic flight, I do regularly and it's not even close to the same kind of rest you get in your bed or a hotel bed on the road. Do you know how many contracts would need to be revised just on the travel exception alone ... I do, and so do the players with clauses that would preclude them from unnecessary travel due to the fact that they were negotiated with the possibility of expansion in mind and would take away even more of a players "free time" out of their control.