Oh, and by the way.. I don't get why everybody is acting so surprised at this shit.

Every country involved in any kind of international relations does things in the shadows. We do, the European countries do, the Middle Eastern and Asian countries do, etc.

It's like another separate world that most of us know nothing about and are not at all a willing part of.

 

I agree with you but unfortunately the government see's them as both pawns and human shields and will use that to their advantage if and when they are stupid enough to actually poke the US with that stick of theirs instead of just waving it around.

 

Again the analogy. The Soviet Union leadership was fond of this sort of sabre-rattling, too. But in the end, they could generally be counted on not to act in a completely self-destructive manner. Iran's leaders huff and puff and talk a good game, but they're not immune from international pressure and sanctions.

 

I agree. We can't talk about it, because it tends to undermine the view Americans have of their government and the purity of its motives.

 

I understand where you are coming from Kimi and as much as I am trying to stay with you on this ........ there is a difference between being nuts and being insane, and unfortunately the Iranian government and their radical views are not concerned about the heavy loss of life that their citizens will suffer if this thing "gets real". The Soviet Union could actually put their money where their mouth was, if push came to shove and had a certain amount of restraint fueled by sanity .......... The jury is still out on Iran though.

 

You need to make a distinction between what Iran says (particularly Ahmedinijad, who is NOT the leader of Iran), and what Iran does. What have they done?

As for concerns about the heavy loss of life on the part of Iranian citizens, I'm not sure the U.S. is all that concerned about them either. And if YOU were concerned about them, maybe you'd be less inclined to go to war.

 

If you mean me personally when you say "YOU", I don't recall using any over the top response to say to go blow the fucking sandhill to bits, but did say that if it can be proven that they are to blame ......... first off it is a Saudi problem and they should fix it, not the US. I did say though that use of force was an option if they are a direct threat to the US.

I do thank you for one thing though Kimi ......... for reminding me why I try to stay away from these stalemate political threads and will just go off and bang my head on the concrete for a bit until I figure out why I came here in the first place.:excited::rose:

PS .......... at least I didn't get out the "Redneck" handbook for use in my posts and tried to add to this thread with constructive views.

 

Yes, I will give you credit for that, and I'm sorry if I came on a bit strong there.

I have to add, though, that Iran is NOT a direct threat to the U.S., any more than Saddam Hussein was. And we ought to stop allowing ourselves to be frightened like that.

 

The threat of Iran attacking the citizens of the U.S.is growing exponentially, it's time for you leftists to realize this,,before it's too late,,,AGAIN.

 

Really? When was the last time it was too late?

 

I'm not talking specifically about Iran.

 

It also happens to be the very reason we're constantly at risk of being attacked by extremists.

Which is also the reason why any non-European country except for Israel is a possible threat to the US. Most of them associate us with the Europeans who fucked up their countries, we trained groups like the MS13, al-Qaida, etc etc, and we used other countries as part of our Cold War with Russia and communism.

At the same time though, Russia was doing the exact same thing, and "communist" countries were in fact trying to take over everywhere.

Just like these fundamentalist/"liberation" groups are trying to do, and they learned everything they know from our military.

The only way to combat extremists and "liberation groups" is to get everything out in the open. No more bullshit, no more lies, only the truth about what has happened in history and who is to blame. Then the International community needs to hold the parties accountable and force them to do right by those they wronged.

Then these liars won't be allowed to pretend to fight for the people or for Islam or anything else. They'll be exposed for what they really are.

 

Try 9/11. Not Iranian driven but by extremist driven doctrines.
I'm not trying to put anyone down but people have short memories.
If the assassination plot had come to fruition, American politicians and civilians lives would have been at stake.
Government and extremist leaders who are the antagonists who are manipulating general populations and individuals to commit such acts should when their involvement is proven beyond all doubt be targeted and taken out, period.
To have innocent lives lost at the whim of extremist doctrines of individuals in governments is a crime against humanity. Remove the extremist, save the innocent of society.
Why should we concern ourselves over the right to life of individuals promoting and directing death to the innocent.
Maybe the attitudes of others predisposed to violent acts would think twice if they realized there's a likelihood of being caught in a snipers rifle crosshair.

 

I didn't have time this morning to give kimi-baby a history lesson. I thank you,,I couldn't of said it any better..

 

I don't believe we can honestly know how far up the chain of command these plans went. Iran is a mystery even to the people who make their living studying and analyzing it. The power structure, behind the scenes is constantly shifting from what I can see. I doubt the supreme leader or the president signed off on this, but I could see a SF general or somebody lower down on the food chain being involved. That is if this isn't one big false flag operation of course. Generals and Functionaries all have their private turf, and use them as a power base to push their own agendas. ( we've never seen that happen in our own country of course *cough cough*)

I also think it would be dangerous to apply western thinking to the leaders of Iran. Who says Ahmidinejad wouldn't be willing to take massive casualties in his own country in return for being the leader who wiped Israel off the map? If he actually has the power to, lets say, launch a nuke, he might actually do it. We've seen self immolation in extremely religious types before, suicide bombers come to mind. I could see that happening with a country, if one nutter had too much power. In the second battle of Fallujah the insurgents injected themselves with Hiv/aids just on the off chance they could infect an American, that kind of thinking is scary, but it's real.

 

The problem is not that such a thing is inconceivable. The problem is that if you react to every horror your imagination can conjure up, things you imagine that some bogeyman MIGHT do, you end up starting a lot of unnecessary, unprovoked wars and get a lot of people needlessly killed.

 

It's how we react that's important, and yes to every horror our imaginations can conjure up.
Preparedness doesn't cause wars or get a lot of people needlessly killed. In fact it's the exact opposite. It's how we can save lives on both sides of a possible conflict.
This Iranian sponsored assassination attempt is a prime example. Fortunately it was discovered with the result of saving lives. No-one expected such an extreme, outlandish attempt on American soil, but that's just the point. It's the unexpected we need desperately to be prepared for. To become complacent or take the position that certain types of scenarios could never take place, will result in countless deaths. That's our new reality.
During the Libyan uprising, the NATO alliance supporting it dropped the ball and now countless weapons including surface to air shoulder fired missiles have gone missing. Air travel will become a dangerous form of transportation if these items aren't recovered. Should we stop flying because of it? NO. But that doesn't mean we should disregard the possible consequences.
The world we now live in has become a dangerous time. It would be wise to be aware of the potential disasters facing us in our daily routines not unlike looking both ways before crossing a street. Looking both ways has become instinctive and not something we dwell on and likewise we will start exorcising similar reactions instinctively in our awareness of potential threats without dwelling on them. But that takes time to become instilled into our general make up. Until then, those who dream up outlandish threats to be prepared for, are a necessary and vital addition to our process of preparedness.
So should we be concerned about what your boogeyman can conjure up? Absolutely. This Iranian attempt just proved it.

 

No, what it proved is that with good intelligence and good police work, attacks like this can be prevented. It wasn't necessary to launch a pre-emptive strike against Iran to prevent it, and it still isn't necessary.

As for whether or not Iran "sponsored" the attack, we have only the Obama Administration's word for that. Haven't you learned yet to be skeptical of such claims?

 

Oh Hun, I'm skeptical of anything that comes out of any political arena until proof has been tabled.
At no time have I suggested a pre-emptive strike against Iran.
A pre-emptive strike would cause the deaths of countless innocent Iranians which is opposite to the position I've taken throughout.
There are individuals in both extremist governments and terrorist organizations who are the antagonists in this new era which we now live in.
My position has always been remove these antagonists from the formula and countless lives wil be preserved with the removal of each of these individuals.
Why should we have any regard for any of these individuals right to life when their agenda is the direction and instigation of murdering millions.
Just and righteous governments are tainted by such individuals who through their campaigns of manipulation create environments of conflict.
It's the removal of such individuals which will give stability to this very troubled world. I agree with you that it's this intelligence along with the good police work your speaking about that will make us aware of these individuals but with added tools that will enable these agencies to exorcise pre-emptive strikes against individuals not nations or governments that will ultimately keep us all safe. That would include anything from imprisonment to extreme prejudice.

 

I never said we should react to it, just keep it in mind. People tend to project themselves onto others, to believe that they are the same. In many cases that is true, but not always. It is dangerous to assume is all I'm saying.