Surely that indicates it is not a biological issue then. If the intelligence of their parents is not passed down genetically, it indicates environmental upbringing for blacks taking precedence.

 

Not at all. It can be explained by a genetic phenomena called "reversion to the mean." Exceptional qualities are dependent on recessive genes matching.

To give a little background, eye color is determined at one gene location. At each gene location you have one gene from your mother, and one from your father. Brown eyes are dominant. Blue eyes are recessive. If you have two genes for brown eyes at that gene location, you have brown eyes. If you have one gene for brown eyes, and one gene for blue eyes, you have brown eyes. If you have two genes for blue eyes you have blue eyes.

Many genes influence intelligence, but they are at specific locations. So, let us consider one location. A brilliant father may have two AA genes there, where A genes are recessive for intelligence. A brilliant mother may have BB genes there, and B genes are also recessive for intelligence. Their children will get one gene from each. They will get AB, for the effect is lost.

Because the average intelligence for blacks is about fifteen IQ points lower than the average for whites, the children of intelligent black parents have a lower level to revert to.

Because affluent, well educated black parents are likely to provide their children with better environments than poor, and poorly educated white parents the fact that the black parents are likely to lave children who are less intelligent than the white parents indicates that genes are more important than environment.

 

I was with you here, but then

This presumes there is a benchmark intelligence that everyone has, which differs between race, that people are limited to if they do not possess particular genes. This is also in contradiction with the first part of your post on how genes work.

Again without knowledge of the different environments, and how an environment affects intelligence, that is not an assumption that can be backed up.

For instance intelligent black parents that have a large income, my choose to bring their children up in a luxury environment, but not one that promotes academic study. This could have an impact on how well the children do on their exams.


The difference (if there is one) is more likely to be cultural, than biological.

 

That might be true in individual cases, but it cannot explain average differences.

 

Of course it can. Averages are made up from individual cases.

 

These websites document my assertions. Nevertheless, for years I have read that blacks tend to perform less well than whites even when income and school quality are held constant.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:1995-SAT-Income.png

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:1995-SAT-Education.png

Notice that Orientals from humble origins tend to perform better than whites with humble origins.

 

I didn't ask what Chuckles thinks I asked for your ideas......and I doubt if the prison idea has legs considering there's around 90 million Hispanic and Black people in the US. http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0762156.html

Maybe you could find some ideas from your other hero and favourite read, mein kampf.

 

Be glad they are not in your country.

From 1980 to 2000 the prison population in the United States grew from 315,974 to 1,428,187.

http://www.jacksonprogressive.com/issues/lawenforcement/punishment.pdf

From 1980 to 2010 the crime rate in the United States per 100,000 declined from 5,950.0 to 3,345.5.

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm

Punishment works.

 

Cmon DL. Don't ignore this. I think this must be the fourth or fifth time I've asked these questions of you and I'm not going to stop until you provide me with a rational explanation of why significant groups perform in contradiction to the premise of the Bell Curve.

I have submitted that the Tuskagee Airmen, the conduct of the Japanese Nation before and during WWII and the conduct of the German nation in WWII refute the premise of the Bell Curve Thingy. I have given DL examples and links to assist him in his research.

DL suggests that The Tuskagee Airmen did not perform as I have described. He has not however refuted the evidence, only demanded more evidence from me.

He has stated that the above examples are "anomalies"

DL has failed repeatedly to explain how the examples I have cited can be reconciled with the Bell Curve Thingy.

In scientific study, finding a valid exception to a premise proves the premise false, or requires a refinement of the premise to account for the exception.

Let me help DL out. The Bell Curve Thingy can't explain it. The Bell Curve thingy is a compilation of unconnected facts used to support an invalid premise. It's a theory proven false by real life events.

Kind of like the perfessor asserting that the earth is flat. One could find all manner of things to support such a premise. But reality disproves it.

Accepting a theory or premise without understanding the proof behind it is ignorant. Continuing to support a premise or theory proven false is delusional.

 

You didn't answer my question, as i see you haven't answered Shootera's either.

 

Okay. I'm back.

DL, someone above is accusing you of being an admirer of Hitler. That really pisses me off. Hearsay, as far as I'm concerned, because I do not know that about you. But if it is true, you really have to grow up a bit and get over it.

You are smart enough to appreciate the absurdity of your beliefs, if only you'll relent on the obstinacy for a little bit.

Here's an example.

You've placed a lot of stock in this 10,000-year-explosion nonsense. Cochran and Harpending defend their belief in a super-intelligent race of Jews by claiming, among other things, that the post-ice age explosion in population created rich opportunities for gene mixing and accelerated evolution.

You are also saying that Hispanics are less intelligent than whites.

Yet New World Hispanics have the exact same heritage, and came to the New World, at the exact same time as New World whites. Hispanics are European stock (principally Spaniard) who settled Central and South America to interbreed with indigenous peoples at the exact same time as English, French, and Germanic stock came and settled the north, to interbreed as well. (Yes, I am simplifying- English and French also settled southward, and Spanish also settled northward.)

Given the common heritage, why would "north new-worlders" be genetically superior to "south new-worlders?" And if Cochran and Harpending are not quacks, would the enrichment of the gene pool not have improved both groups?

What is it that made the "north new-world" whites luck out and improve themselves by interbreeding? Why did the "south new-world" whites spoil their bloodlines and turn themselves into dunces by interbreeding?

How does that scenario reconcile with the cockamamie assertions of Cochran and Harpending?

I hope you can agree that we do not have to wait for decades in genomic advancement to see that something is wrong with the scenario in which you believe. Either gene pool enrichment helps, or it does not help.

All of this assumes, of course, that the brain can indeed advance by natural selection in just a few dozen generations, which in and of itself I regard as utterly absurd.

 

rape and cannibalism in Africa

I have not ignored your questions. You ignore my answers. the Tuskegee Airmen were exceptional. The cruelty of the German and Japanese armies during the Second World War was also exceptional.

In the almost constant warfare of contemporary Africa, black men are reverting to the widespread rape and cannibalism that was characteristic of their behavior before the European empires imposed a modicum of civilization on them.

------------

Cannibalism has been reported in several recent African conflicts, including the Second Congo War, and the civil wars in Liberia and Sierra Leone. A U.N. human rights expert reported in July 2007 that sexual atrocities against Congolese women go "far beyond rape" and include sexual slavery, forced incest, and cannibalism.[147] This may be done in desperation, as during peacetime cannibalism is much less frequent;[148] at other times, it is consciously directed at certain groups believed to be relatively helpless, such as Congo Pygmies, even considered subhuman by some other Congolese.[149] It is also reported by some that witch doctors sometimes use the body parts of children in their medicine.[150]In the 1970s the Ugandan dictator Idi Amin was reputed to practice cannibalism.[151][152]

In Uganda, the Lord's Liberation Army routinely engage in ritual or magical cannibalism.[153]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannibalism

 

Oh, please. To the extent that inner city schools are dangerous places, they're dangerous because of the socio-economic conditions that prevail in those communities. That says NOTHING about the genetic proclivity of one race or another toward violent crime, and to say it does is racist, pure and simple. What it does say is that crime thrives when people live in poverty and hopelessness.

 

I have read Mein Kampf, and think that Adolf Hitler had valid insights into human nature and social psychology. Admiration connotes respect and affection. I respect Hitler's insights. I do not like him. Those here who claim otherwise are engaging in characteristic attacks on my character that they resort to because they are incapable of refuting my arguments rationally.

Hispanics are a hybrid race including European Caucasians, Indians, and Negroes. Those who come to the United States usually have a large percentage of Indian ancestry. They have a higher crime rate than whites, but a lower crime rate than blacks. Their average intelligence also falls between white and black averages. This can be explained by the fact that they have a higher percentage of white ancestry than blacks. American blacks average about 20 percent white ancestry.

The 10,000 Year Explosion maintains that the longer a population group has practiced agriculture and urban living the higher its average intelligence and the lower its crime rate are likely to be. Although American Indians in what is now Latin Americans began agriculture about five thousand years ago, and civilization about three thousand years ago, whites began both much earlier. Also agriculture and urban living were less prevalent in what is now Mexico in 1492 than in Europe. Agriculture did not reach the Great Lakes region until about one thousand years ago.

It is important to recognize that professors Cochran and Harpending do not maintain a one to one correlation. Civilization began in what is now Iraq and Egypt before it began anywhere else. City life probably does not go back in Russia more than a thousand years ago. I am not sure about agriculture, but the Slavic peoples adopted it several thousand years later than the Egyptians.

Currently the Russians have a higher average IQ than the Egyptians, and also a higher murder rate.

http://www.tapesh.com/forum/showthread.php?14563-Average-IQ-Map

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

For a country with an almost exclusively Caucasian population Russia has a very high murder rate. I attribute this to social dislocations that followed the fall of the Soviet Union. Accounts I have read of those who visited the Soviet Union when it still existed seem to suggest that the crime rate was lower than in the United States.

Despite a fairly low standard of living the Egyptians have a lower murder rate than the United States. That is what we could expect from the biological history of the Egyptian nation, and it is consistent with arguments found in The 10,000 Explosion.

That book does not explain why Orientals have higher average IQs than whites, and lower crime rates. I think it is due to the fact that there has been a more continuous tradition of civilization in the Far East. Countries there never experienced anything equivalent to the Dark Ages in Europe.

Also, for about two thousand years the imperial exam system in China enabled brilliant sons of peasants to achieve wealth, prestige and power if they could pass the exams. They were expected to have several wives and many children, who they could provide well for.

 

Those were safe neighborhoods and safe schools before the blacks moved in. Blacks carry their slums everywhere they go. They turn thriving white working class neighborhoods and the schools they send their children to to asphalt and black board jungles. Four decades since the civil rights legislation was signed, and since vast sums of money have been spent in anti poverty programs, this can not longer be attributed to white racism.

At the very least, we should have expected an improvement in black behavior after 1964, when the war in poverty was begun, and the first far reaching civil rights law was signed. What we got instead were five years of black ghetto rioting. White blue collar workers noticed that the riots ended abruptly with the election of Richard Nixon. The black crime rate continued to grow until the growth in the prison population.

 

You are absolutely full of shit El Casanova and seriously beneath the level of debate you said you wanted. That was clearly a summary of the report and a very strong statement from one of the participants in the APA assessment was after the fact because The Bell Curve did not go through peer review prior to publication.

Here's the link to the APA's report and a couple findings that confirm the assessment of The Bell Curve being a political work not a scientific one.

http://www.lrainc.com/swtaboo/taboos/apa_01.html

 

Did anyone else notice that for some reason nether the OP or DL has an answer for the members of the Human Genome Project also denouning The Bell Curve in what I would call scathing terms.

Here's a quote.

".... we deplore The Bell Curve's misrepresentation of the state of genetic knowledge in this area and the misuse of genetics to inform social policy."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1914721/?page=1

Notice how scientists and scientific studies, knowledge, and statements are being ignored in order to keep this alleged scientific question only in emotional and racist terms.

Which proves its only a game. Not an actual discussion.

 

Any serious student of the intellectual differences between the races is careful to say that the differences are average, and that the races overlap in intelligence.

This is what Professor J. Philippe Rushton has to say about the matter in his essay, "RACE, EVOLUTION, AND BEHAVIOR: A Life History Perspective"

On average, Orientals are slower to mature, less fertile, and less sexually active, have larger brains and higher IQ scores. Blacks are at the opposite end in each of these areas. Whites fall in the middle, often close to Orientals. The evidence shows that this is due to both genes and environment. I have suggested an evolutionary theory to explain this three-way pattern.

Of course, these differences are averages. The full range of behaviors, good and bad, is found in every race. No group has a monopoly on virtue or vice, wisdom or folly. However, this pattern is true over time and across nations and this means that we cannot ignore it.
http://www.charlesdarwinresearch.org/Race_Evolution_Behavior.pdf

 

Fallacy: Appeal to Authority

As a rule I think it is a good idea to assume that the consensus of the experts is more likely to be correct than false. For this to be the case, however, there must be an open debate. Unfortunately, it is dangerous in many professional environments to agree openly with the finding of Charles Murray and Richard Herrnstein. Although prominent, tenured professors can agree with only some danger, those competing for professorial positions know that agreement is likely to reduce their chances.

Until there is an open debate on this matter, those who quote presumed authorities approach the Appeal to Authority Fallacy.

---------

Also Known as: Fallacious Appeal to Authority, Misuse of Authority, Irrelevant Authority, Questionable Authority, Inappropriate Authority, Ad Verecundiam

Description of Appeal to Authority
An Appeal to Authority is a fallacy with the following form:


Person A is (claimed to be) an authority on subject S.
Person A makes claim C about subject S.
Therefore, C is true.
This fallacy is committed when the person in question is not a legitimate authority on the subject. More formally, if person A is not qualified to make reliable claims in subject S, then the argument will be fallacious.
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-authority.html

The fact that the military remains committed to intelligence testing, that private employers increasingly use them in making employment decisions, and that both only pay lip service to affirmative action tells me that the tests are accurate ways to measure individual and group differences in intelligence. When it matters to know the truth, the truth is acted on, even if it is politically incorrect.

 

I knew it was hopeless to argue with you. I should have held to my resolve not to waste my time. All you have to do is look around this forum (and in the mirror), and you'd know that white racism is alive and well, despite the Civil Rights Act and the War on Poverty.

I'm done. Peddle your racist theories somewhere else.

Of course, now you'll say I was unable to refute your arguments, because you're right. So be it.