Using X-O's words, YOU CAN READ THE BOOKS YOURSELF USING GOOGLE BOOKS...

I have posted a link to a book that YOU can READ, NOW why should I have to COPY OUT the pages for you....

YOU ask for credible, factual and verifiable information to refute any claim that The Bell Curve has made, YET when this is posted YOU simply IGNORE it and go off into your own little world..
DOES IT make a difference whether I physically type out the relevant page, or just post a link to where YOU can read the WHOLE BOOK..

DO THE WORK YOURSELF, YOU LAZY INDIVIDUAL..

It is NOT big or clever to sit behind a computer spouting off information and telling people that if they DO NOT believe what you say, then they should FIND the information to show that you are wrong. Then when the information is posted, ALL you do is keep repeating yourself that the information DOES NOT show anything because YOU CANNOT be bothered to READ IT...

The first link I typed out the relevant section, as I was NOT certain the link would work..
BUT if you had BOTHERED to click on the link, and READ the relevant page, YOU would have seen that WHAT I typed is exactly what is on the page...

 

It is currently believed largely on the basis of DNA that dogs were first domesticated from wolves in what is now China about fifteen thousand years ago, and that the descendants of these dogs spread throughout the world. Before then it was believed that dogs were independently domesticated from wolves in different locations, and at different times.

The Eskimos are still considered to have been paleolithic.

 

I rarely if ever quote The Bell Curve, as though it is authoritative. I present my arguments for the biological reasons for racial differences using my own words, using the internet only to substantiate facts. This is what I am asking you to do.

There are plenty of books that claim to somehow refute The Bell Curve. There are plenty of books that claim to refute the theory of evolution, or the greenhouse effect. This does not mean that any of those books contain valid arguments.

Books that claim to refute The Bell Curve cannot explain the durability of IQ scores over a person's life. They cannot explain why high intelligence runs in families. They cannot explain why individuals from some population groups, such as the Ashkenazic Jews, tend to perform much better on all the mental aptitude tests however they are designed than individuals from other population groups, and why they also dominate fields requiring superior intelligence.

The Bell Curve explains all of that. It does so simply and plausibly.

Those who claim that IQ tests are culturally biased cannot explain why, although the tests were designed in the United States, Orientals tend to perform better than white Americans.

 

Researchers Refute the Bell Curve

Inequality by Design: Cracking the Bell Curve Myth by six members of the University of California, Berkeley, Department of Sociology does precisely what its title promises. Through a reanalysis of the data set used in the infamous Herrnstein and Murray book (see Examiner, Winter 1994-95), the authors refute the claim that inherited differences in intelligence cause inequality. Instead, they show that racial variations in achievement are the result of a society's inequality, not an unavoidable consequence of genes. With statistics from a host of sources, they make a persuasive case that the social status of an individual s birth in a highly stratified culture is the primary link to his or her future economic success. Based on this analysis, they call for a focus on policies designed to reform the rules of the game to close the widening gap between rich and poor.

Another reanalysis of Herrnstein and Murray's work, concluding that its fundamental conclusion is erroneous, appears in the peer-reviewed electronic journal Education Policy Analysis Archives. Haggai Kupermintz of Stanford University takes up a challenge from the Bell Curve coauthor Charles Murray to [c]reate some other scales and use some other method of combining them to determine if cognitive ability has an effect independent from family social economic status (SES). Adjusting for an individual s own years of education, Kupermintz finds IQ is no longer dominant and that SES has a crucial role. He concludes, Attempts to disentangle the independent effects of cognitive ability and harsh environment are doomed, not because of technical complications, but because American social reality is less than generous toward its weakest citizens.

Ref. http://fairtest.org/researchers-refute-bell-curve

Distant Lover, these people are researchers from high powered learning institutions, Stanford University and University of California at Berkeley. They have refuted Charles Murray's Bell Curve.

Your comments are laughable Distant Lover... You have one REFUTED source that you have NOT even read to base your arguments on, which are illogical because you regurgitate refuted claims.

Ah, yeah... The reality as stated above is that society is simply less generous towards its weakest citizens.:rose:

Carrie on...

 

As I have mentioned before, I present my own arguments using facts that I document. I do not base my arguments on any authority. I compose my own arguments.

 

This thread was much better when stumbler and I were attempting to derail the fuck out of it,,,,chatting about Princess Pelosi's tits.

 

To play Devil's advocate: nowhere does DL ever say that it is conclusively proved. He admits, freely, that the question will never be settled until scientific, genetic evidence proves or disproves his claim.

He believes that the data manipulation in the Bell Curve is valid. He believes that the data he produces substantiates the conclusion he extrapolates from the Bell Curve. He is, for better or for worse, entitled to these beliefs.

I do not believe that his conclusions are valid. From what I have gleaned, a disproportionately high number of eminent sociologists and statisticians have claimed that the work done in the Bell Curve is not valid, but DL correctly points out that there are still unanswered questions - and those questions will remain unanswered for the foreseeable future.

 

You may have needed a more beautiful distraction.

 

http://www.apa.org/research/action/intelligence-testing.aspx

 

In this thread?????,, I would of that that de-rail would of taken off with rocket boosters.

 

Even with the Flynn Effect there is still a large race gap.

 

The problem here, DL, is that upbringing is impossible to adequately quantify statistically. There are simply too many environmental factors. I would be tempted to argue that the reason that intelligence seems to run in families is because there is both a genetic and environmental factor: not only do intelligent people pass on their genes, they also pass on, through upbringing, traits like curiousity, inquisitiveness, and a desire to learn and reason. Furthermore, they also foster an environment whereby the child is encouraged to learn and investigate and, through discussion, they help the child advance fundamental reasoning skills.

Of course, it comes back to what Heyesey said some time ago: IQ tests prove nothing more than aptitude at taking IQ tests.

 

Oh, ok... Come on, Distant Lover - what makes you, an inexperienced researcher and under educated man in the field of sociology, a more credible resource than 7 researchers from 2 high powered learning institutions?

Umm... Yeah, my argument is that Charles Murray's Bell Curve has been refuted. Yep, the facts are documented by reference and since the data and documentation is published anyone can peruse through it.

All I had to do was find past credible research that refutes the Bell Curve and reference it and I'm done... I have shown that the Bell Curve has been refuted.

Uh huh... Distant Lover, your job is much harder because you must disprove what the 7 researchers have demonstrated to be true. I wish you good luck with that and don't see it happening in the near future.:rose:

Carrie on...

 

The refutation of The Bell Curve will come when someone finds a way of significantly and permanently increasing a person's IQ, and when blacks perform and behave as well as whites.

Until then those who claim to refute The Bell Curve will make me think of weather forecasters who tell me that there is a clear sky, little wind, and a temperature of 70 degrees Farenheit, when what I see outside is a forty mile an hour wind, and a freezing rain.

 

Identical twins reared apart are more similar in IQ than non related children raised by the same parents. IQ tests have been proven to accurately predict performance in school and on the job. If this were not true the military would not be committed to mental aptitude testing, and private employers would not be using it increasingly.

Universities who place less reliance on mental aptitude tests do not harm themselves. They still get the tuition money.

 

Ah, no... Charles Murray's Bell Curve doesn't make reference to the behavior of blacks or even specifically to the performance of blacks. You see, Charles Murray makes a statement referring to blacks and the poor as it pertains to predetermining the ability to learn.

Umm... You really should read the Bell Curve, Distant Lover, because you will understand what Charles Murray's claims truly are. In any case, the Bell Curve doesn't make any claims regarding the behavior of blacks and as such is not relevant to refuting it.:rose:

 

I only use The Bell Curve as shorthand for a biological explanation for intelligence differences between individuals, and average differences between racial groups.

 

Culture and environment can change in a generation. Genetic heritage requires many generations to change. If the very significant differences in average IQ, school performance, and crime rates between blacks and whites was due exclusively, or even primarily to environmental causes there would have been more of a convergence than there has been during the past two generations.

Vietnamese children born during a war, raised in refugee camps, and who lived in the United States as impoverished immigrants generally performed well in school. As soon as they had a chance they took it.

The same can be said of Jewish refugees from the pogroms of Russia during the turn of the last century. They came to the United States and lived in the lower east side of Manhattan in crowded tenement houses. Within a generation Ivy League universities had quotas to keep them out.

As soon as discrimination against blacks in American athletics stopped blacks began to dominate most professional sports.

 

Well done for clipping my post and only answering the easy question.

Now address the three other points, or does that leave you in the quandary of revealing our true racism and bigotry?

 

Word definitions are conventions, not absolute facts. Japanese soldiers during the Second World War were cruel, but the Japan they fought for was certainly a great civilization, and had been for perhaps two thousand years.