You must forgive me if I somehow miss what you consider to be your points, buried as they typically are in a sea of pompous, misanthropic blather, feeble attempts at rapier-like wit, and "nobody can possibly be as smart as me" insults.

You remind me strongly of someone else who used to post here...and if I consider the matter long enough, I'm sure I'll remember who it is. Or you could save the trouble and tell me who your former altar ego was.

 

not only that when you cut it to the bone her only argument is god created everything and nobody created god because god lives in a celestial Narnia where none of the natural laws of physics apply. Ask her to explain how such came to be and her logic, albeit her savagely mauled version of it, crumbles like a house of cards in an earthquake.

 

I mean take a look at this. what does this even mean.

mankind must not care about the creator of the creator? That's the nonsensical part?

'Oh by all means I believe in god, we should worship him and praise him. But the guy who created god? fuck that guy he's a douche'

:lol:

 

Incubus, give this your time.

Explain what you mean by "so much fail".

 

Of course what you say is true

because as everyone knows, God is a woman, so your "God" of course would have a bigger dick than God. But bigger tits??? I doubt it.

 

Im not evil mother fuckers!!! You all fuck up!! Money aint everything its true... but what i cant buy...i cant use!!

 

Oh dear, did I ever not see that coming. You could make me seem a little less prophetic by, perhaps...reading?

You are as helplessly ironic as ever. Speaking of existing in Narnia, what do we say of someone who exists in a fantasy world in which everyone who disagrees with them does so for exactly the same reason? Do we say they are deranged? Or merely that they are too simple to grasp more than one straw at a time?

It depresses me to realize that you have never heard of a hypothetical, or taken part in a metaphor. These strange methods of debate confound you like a baby in a bowl of spaghetti. Time and time again I say, "No, your argument is bad, and here is the reason why, here is the hole you have left behind and here is how it could be answered."

Time and time again you respond as though I had stated a personal opinion, rather than merely highlighted your mistake. If you would like my personal opinion, you may ask for it. But I will continue to explain to you exactly why your argument does not complete itself. And if you continue to get the two confused...well, would anyone be surprised?

You are exactly who I said you were and continue to be. And you are an all too common creature. Another hopeless, fanatical atheist who bears its teeth each time someone says, "I'm sorry, but you've missed a spot." The world is a complicated and nuanced place my friend, and everyone who disagrees with you is not a Muslim extremist, a Christian crusader, or a Hindu harangue. Much as you'd like them to be. Sometimes they disagree with you simply because you make bad arguments for your cause. That time, is right now.

Perhaps spend a little less time parroting your favorite atheist authors, and a little more studying the art of following a thought through to its end, or recognizing clearly marked hypothetical statements. Or don't. It certainly makes my job easier.

 

Much obliged. I blame you very little, considering that oft recited arguments, as you pointed out, tend to find one eventually skimming rather than reading, then answering what they assume the point to be, because it has been the same so many times before.

Thankfully you are a thoughtful enough person to admit when you have assumed wrong. Such an attitude and honesty is a breath of fresh air in a thread where people seem quite intent on arguing with the assumption, even after being informed of the reality.

 

My take....and be clear, agree or not I don't really care as it works for me and finding God as he works for you is what matters.

First off, I don't have faith, or believe......I know, it's been proven "to me" and not via any human or religion. So for me it is not a question. However, though I will not criticize any that find God through a 'religion', personally though each might have bits and pieces right, the second they state "us or you don't believe or are not connected to God" leaves me flat with them (and makes me wonder what God will have to say to them being they're turning folks away from him). Plus, many fancy themselves as simply a way to gain power over others.......So, I am not religious.

I also do not believe in a destiny.......nothing is cut in stone.

That said, I believe evolution is the creation of God. Cut and dry simple enough, now make something that can evolve, that is the miracle. So with that thought in mind I believe for the most part God lets the world turn and things happen as they will. He can and will intervene, yet his reasons for doing so or not his own and beyond my ability to determine.

I also believe God expects us to fuck up....a lot....doesn't mean you'll burn for it, and karma is something that simply is a logical chain of events. He would like for us to make the best choices, and to succeed, be healthy and prosper......However those are accomplishments we all must make happen for ourselves, and in the end the person who never has the chance is simply proving the failing of others.

If all it took was a prayer to change everything.......then there is no evolution, there is no bettering of the species physically/mentally/emotionally, or of the world in general, or of anything. It's a quick fix that nothing progresses from, and growing and progressing is what it is all about.

Yes the innocent suffer. Yes babies die, the good are tortured, millions hunger, war, disease, you name it.......Yes he could fix it......Yet that would end the whole deal as that moment we stop trying and become mindless bowing and scraping drones begging God for every little nothing because we're too lazy to get off our ass.

However, I don't believe he causes the suffering. Those are natural aspects of our world at this moment until WE change it......Again, Yes the innocent suffer. Yet it is for us to do all we can to make it better......and sometimes the bad might just be there to inspire us to better things.

In the end for the most part, I believe the most important aspect of God is simply knowing he is there for you. In the end whatever it may end up being, he will be there to welcome us.........Past that most of his interaction is simply to confirm to us he is there, hoping we do well, and there for us when we're through with this life.

The above doesn't have to work for you, you don't have to agree, it makes no difference to me.......It's between me and God, and his place to tell me if I was right or wrong when all is said and done.

K2

 

both of you want to create your own philosophy based on your personal convictions.

Fortunately, what makes you feel warm and cuddly inside means nothing to the wider community.

 

Unfortunately for you, what makes you feel warm and cuddly inside is only justified by you personally.

Remember....believers have god in common.....

atheists have erm....'nothing' in common.

PS. Hi grimmtea.....Nice style.

 

Incubus I like you. But if you're going to post physics to strengthen your arguments. Please get the physics correct

 

What you are arguing is inconsequential because the definition is 'order' is speculative.

Wow. so many cocky bastards on this thread.

 

this statement is so fucking stupid.

why did you even make a comment here?

 

Not in the world of science it is not. The Second Law of Thermodynamics. This says that the total amount of disorder, or entropy, in the universe, always increases with time.

That is to say, when the universe began, it was highly ordered, and now it is not. That does not mean highly ordered things such as 'life' cannot exist. (clearly it does) As long as the total amount of disorder in the universe increases, all is well in the world of physics. Life can be highly ordered and behave in a sense that can sustain itself against the tendency to disorder. For it to do these things, the system must convert energy in some ordered form, like food, sunlight, or electric power, into disordered energy, in the form of heat.

Either way, entropy is an important and well understood aspect of science. To deny it, is the same level of ignorance as of the people that deny evolution, or the big bang.

 

sounds ok....

where does one attain this level of info you post are you a psysis what religous denomination do you represent if you don't mind me askin....

 

How can some1 say there is no god or he is evil? How can you explain how anything exists without him.. Disastors happen.. Be it gods will.. Get over it..

 

I would much prefer someone who creates their own philosophy(as does very human being to a certain extent...), rather than creating imaginary people to argue with.

I thoroughly explain to you the difference between a personal opinion and a hypothetical response. You then accuse me of forcing my philosophy based off of personal convictions, all in order to feel cuddly inside? So might I ask, what are my personal convictions, and what is my philosophy, and how did you get such a grasp on them when they were never given...Oh dear.

I cannot say that you cannot read, because you clearly can--somtimes. But then, if you can read, how do you respond to each argument as though you cannot? Well, allow me a theory as to your simplistic mind and exactly how you read.

The argument placed before Incubus: "I disagree with you. I do not believe in god, but nonetheless, that argument you just made against him is wrong for sixteen reasons and more. Gases, gravity, sperm and eggs? These things do not even approach the question and you cannot disprove a creator by explaining that a car runs on gas. The whole thing is more nuanced than that and you should work on completing a sensible argument for your views before you accost people for being on the opposite side."

What Incubus sees: "I disagree with you Therefore stop reading right here because that must mean I'm an evil fucking christian! Accuse me of believing in god because it makes me feel good and stuff! Oh yeah! You got 'em this time! Turn on Tchaikovsky's 1812 overture while writing crushing response! That's the stuff!"

It is a rough example, but I think it certainly helps explain your practiced responses which are so often in response to...no one real. Why does the person accusing everyone of believing in nonsense have to be the one person believing that someone said what he wanted them to say, rather than what they actually did say? Why do you haunt me so, oh irony?

 

I agree

 

I'm not a Physicist, however I did study physics at college and university, to which I have an undergraduate degree. My hobbies are keeping up to date with science and engineering, particularly in the field of cosmology ( I would consider myself an amateur astronomer). I get the majority of my information from popular science books, but I do seek out papers when something interests me. I'm kept up to date by friends from my physics class at university most of which now have engineering jobs on the cutting edge of science.

I don't claim to represent anything, other than myself. I would class myself as a Secular Humanist (and an atheist with regards to any supernatural beings)