Lets for 1 minute say god does exist, (just hypothetically for arguments sake of course)

Now, please explain how anything at all exists along with god.

 

If there was a god then he would have sent a bolt of lightning down to destroy Joliet's computer.

 

It's called science. Read a book or two. :wall:

Ok, can you please drop the attitude? It makes reading your post extremely arduous.

I'm not accusing you of being a christian. I'm accusing you of being another run of the mill do it yourself philosopher who makes cosmic revalations based on nothing more than how you perceive reality. You have absolutely no evidence or detailed explanations for your claims.

I base my philosophy of the wealth of knowledge that various brilliant scientific minds have acquired through out the history of science. Knowledge that has been held before the harsh lights of academic and critical scrutiny. Knowledge that is constantly being updated and refined.

You hold on steadfast to your beliefs because it brings you personal comfort and gives you a greater sense of self worth.

There is a HUGE difference between how we approach life.

I care for the truth. No matter how impersonal it is. The universe doesn't need a creator and neither do I.

 

THANKS....

I Respect Your Point Of View

 

And for the record grimmtea my arguments against god is as follows:

The concept is illogical

there is no evidence to be scrutinized

implementing a god is not necessary to explain the current state of the universe. Science can explain everything from the moment of the Big Bang onwards. I see no reason to put aside the scientific method that has proven so successful thus far just because we don't know how the Big Bang started yet. For many many years mankind didn't know what caused lightning so we blamed the gods. if we had given up there we would have never found out the true answer.

Hope you understand.

 

Do I pat myself on the back. Do I jump up and down? Or do I just sigh at the unbelievable thickheadedness of a fellow human being?

Is that perhaps the third post in a row where I have gone out of my way to detail that I do not believe in god, that you are arguing against hypotheticals as though they were opinions, and that you simply cannot understand that someone can argue with you because you are making poor arguments, not because they are religious?

And is that perhaps the third post in row where you have responded by stating that I only think the way I do because I believe in god? And, of course, that you know my opinions and they are wrong--even if they were never given.

That joke I made about what Incubus is told and what Incubus chooses to see? Well I honestly thought it was only that, a joke. I assumed you simply had trouble following a point. But now I see that you are actually so fanatical, that you will insist your opponent be who you want, even if it defies the reality of who they are. I assume you do this because you cannot argue with anything beyond a poorly shaped caricature of "the other side" which you have created in your head. I will say it again: there is a certain irony to the "rational man of science," the "seeker of truth and not comfort," forcing imaginary views onto his opponents, in order to make himself more comfortable. Seems you are religious after all.

Stop talking about your "wealth of knowledge," and your "impersonal truths." You cannot follow a statement as simple as "I do not believe in god," you cannot function around any nuance or hypothetical, and you must create straw men with which to argue. It is therefore, probably best to leave off with statements of your universal brilliance until you can at least follow a point with the nose of a grade school debate club.

 

I must say I have enjoyed this thread because even with the occasional snapping at each other, we have covered just about every point of view there is on the subject. Some of the statements were pretty deep. Thank you all.

 

To piss you off.

It seems to have worked.

 

I hate when a thread like this pops up, I know Im gonna get a headache reading this, but I want to so bad because in some sick, strange way, I enjoy these arguments.

But to the matter at hand. At the end of these types of debates, it always seems to fall back to "God is supernatural, God exists outside of the universe, our laws don't affect him." And something to the affect of "Whatever Science says doesn't matter, sure, Evolution exists, but I believe God set it in motion."

I take the stance of what I personally believe to be the most honest stance one can make, an agnostic atheist. I dont believe it's possible to find out for certain, and do to a lack of evidence, I simply dont believe. However, I leave myself open to the idea that a God might exist, somewhere out there, outside of the universe, as someone said earlier, that's what makes him supernatural.

Because Science doesn't take a stance on the supernatural since there's no way to test it, I leave the possibility out there. Im not arguing that there isn't any God, simply that we have no idea.

The problem, however, is that while I'm content to leave this issue open, those of actual religious conviction jump on it, they grab this stance and desperately call out "HAHA, see? You cant deny God, so I'm right!" Again, this wouldnt be so bad, and some of you wonder why atheists get so riled up over this. It's because so many influential people who are in charge of governments, companies and setting up how people live have some sort of religious faith. They make rules, they tell us how to live. Just look at some of the republican candidates, practically every stance that Rick Perry makes has to do with the bible, and if he won the presidency, he'd be closer to having his way. Even if the Taliban and Al Queda have political reasons for their acts of oppression and terrorism, they'll also use religion as a crutch to further validate their actions.

So remember when some of us atheists respond, it's not that we're die-hard on trying to prove God doesn't exist, we'd be as equally thrilled as you if God were to show himself to all of us right now, cause we'd finally have some answers. We just want more questioning of beliefs, so that maybe in the future we won't have candidates for the most important office in the country, perhaps the world, saying that gay people can't get married cause God says so.

Now back to your death fights, people, I want to see some organs flying!

 

If only you chose to argue on the basis of what you DO believe, rather than simply put down the arguments of others, as if for sport. When you're not insulting people, you seem to spend your time pointing out that you actually don't think what you're being accused of thinking, and actually didn't say what it seemed like you said.

 

That guy in the video at the beginning of this thread speaks like someone without faith. That kind of talk is logical and factual, but, it lacks the optimism that faith has.

I prayed for my sick child when he was born and it helped me deal with the situation. I am grateful for the medical staff that helped him pull through. But, I still like to think that there was a benevolent power involved as well.

 

Of course, the fact that you consider your faith valuable to you doesn't mean that such faith is justified by the existence of a god who might intervene in your life or the life of a loved one.

Would you have taken as much comfort in your faith if the outcome had been otherwise? Would you think that the same "benevolent power" was involved? I don't think I'll ever understand how believers are able to reconcile that.

 

moot point, there is no God.

Not very educational no, but true.

 

Would it be the same benevolent power that made him sick, or at the very least allowed him to be sick in the first place?

If the universe is Gods creation, either he's sloppy and doesn't care, or he's cruel and vindictive.

Evil, not all loving.

 

i dont believe in god, but if there is one he/she/it is obviously not tinkering with this planet.

 

If there is no god, which there is, but for the sake of it.. How would anything even exist? If u wanna say big bang, then how did anything exist before? And as for evolution.. If we evolve from monkeys, then y r there still monkeys? Wouldn't they evolve as well? And to that point, where did the monkeys come from?

 

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As of yet, it is not known what is responsible for the big bang, there are theories, but they are not yet proven. This does not change the fact that big bang is how things happened, we can see it from observations. Proper tangible evidence. Proper highly accurate measurements.

We didn't evolve from modern day monkeys, Humans and monkeys share a common ancestor. In fact we share a common ancestor with all life, however the ancestor we share with monkeys is much closer along the family tree than one we share with say a mouse. And the ancestor we share with a mouse is much closer along the family tree than the one we share with a snake, and the one we share with a snake is much closer along the family tree than the one we share with a mushroom. And so on.

Even if you ignore all the fossil evidence and everything else. You only have to look at the genes we share with other life, it fits 100% exactly with what evolution describes.

Evolution is not even up for debate, it's a fact. If you wish to say, "god set evolution in motion", if that helps you sleep at night, by all means kid yourself with that answer instead. Denying evolution is like denying the existence of gravity, believing the sun orbits the earth or that the earth is flat.

 

What in the world does benevolence have to do with it?

God being benevolent may be purely a form of wishful thinking. We are such a tiny part of this gigantic universe that God treating us like something special seems specious. We're just the product of an evolutionary chain, having enough belligerence and intelligence to keep us alive and to keep us killing each other.

So what? This universe is full of patterns, and these patterns are the giveaway signs for a cohesive intelligence running the place, even if we suffer a lot. Suffering or pleasure doesn't prove or disprove God.

 

Yes because mouse like, snake like, and mushroom (Which is a plant) like features.. And even for those who like the idea of "no god, evolution is everything" you cannot disprove the existence of God(Jesus)..