The idea that negro slaves were "human" was foreign to the pro slave faction. Today, most dyed-in-the-wool white supremacists still think that way.

 

Liberals claim tolerance and openness but in reality they are tolerant of everyone but christians and their beliefs and values.

 

You are simply proving my point.

 

Christian here. After Jesus' resurrection, Jesus was walking with Peter and talking with him about his future. Peter pointed to John and said, "What about him?" Jesus said (paraphrasing here), "What does it matter what I do with him? You follow me." To me, this means I worry about myself and my relationship with God. I have nothing to say about anyone else's experiences. And I will not.

I have no problem with gay marriage, with civil unions, with gays adopting children. If the conservatives want to talk about homosexuality weakening the institution of the family, I would urge them to look at domestic violence or parents abandoning their children, fathers not providing financial support, etc. You want to strengthen the family? Great! Start there.

As far as the Bible. Jerry, I appreciate what you're saying, but you are forgetting contextualization. Let's take the issue of the woman who has been raped marrying her rapist. In that culture, a raped woman would have absolutely no chance of survival. Her family would disown her, she would be unable to marry. The biblical law could very well have been set down to force the rapist to financially take care of the woman he had violated. Do I think that's right? No. But there was much in that culture that wasn't right.

The menstrual law was one of purity -- not because women were "unclean" but because the culture was. Blood carries disease, and it's not like people showered every day. The laws were there to protect people from disease.

Personally, I think this may have been the reason for so many of the dietary laws. And when the times changed, the laws were no longer necessary.

The Bible's laws should be divided into principles and practices. Principles don't change, practices do. What is the principle behind so many of the OT laws? Take care of those who are marginalized in society. That doesn't change.

 

You took it out of context. Did you read the preceding passages or just find certain one to try and sound smart? Let me school ya boy!

Leviticus: Consensual sex
23 "If there is a betrothed virgin, and a man meets her in the city and lies with her, 24 then you shall bring them both out to the gate of that city, and you shall stone them to death with stones, the young woman because she did not cry for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbors wife. So you shall purge the evil from your midst.

23 "If a young woman who is a virgin is n betrothed to a husband, and a man finds her in the city and lies with her, 24 "then you shall bring them both out to the gate of that city, and you shall stone them to death with stones, the young woman because she did not cry out in the city, and the man because he o humbled his neighbor's wife; p so you shall put away the evil from among you.



Leviticus: Rape
25 "But if a man finds a betrothed young woman in the countryside, and the man forces her and lies with her, then only the man who lay with her shall die. 26 "But you shall do nothing to the young woman; there is in the young woman no sin deserving of death, for just as when a man rises against his neighbor and kills him, even so is this matter. 27 "For he found her in the countryside, and the betrothed young woman cried out, but there was no one to save her.

Now on to your "rape" The Hebrew bible states this:

28 "If a man meets a virgin who is not betrothed, and seizes her and lies with her, and they are found, 29 then the man who lay with her shall give to the father of the young woman fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife, because he has violated her. He may not divorce her all his days.

Notice it says seize, not rape! Seize does not automatically mean rape.

Leviticus
22 "If a man is found lying with the wife of another man, both of them shall die, the man who lay with the woman, and the woman. So you shall purge the evil from Israel.

23 "If there is a betrothed virgin, and a man meets her in the city and lies with her, 24 then you shall bring them both out to the gate of that city, and you shall stone them to death with stones, the young woman because she did not cry for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbors wife. So you shall purge the evil from your midst.

Notice the above quote/ It states that if a man rapes a woman, he shall die, but if it consensual, then both of them shall pay the price. The next quote defends the woman:

25 "But if in the open country a man meets a young woman who is betrothed, and the man seizes her and lies with her, then only the man who lay with her shall die. 26 But you shall do nothing to the young woman; she has committed no offense punishable by death. For this case is like that of a man attacking and murdering his neighbor,

Now about the crippled people. God was stating that rule to keep his tabernackle pure. His holy temple. Only certain people were allowed in that temple. Even if someone had a boil, they were not allowed in. He was not talking about anything more than keeping his temple clean. Don't read into things.

The woman's menstrual cycle was and is still today consideredunclean by a lot of people. Me personally no!


Empress lainie, The bible was written through men by God. Some of these men were prophets and walked very close to him. If you do research, you will find that Judaisim, Muslim, and Christianity all come from the same root. Allah is not the name of the muslim God, but the term. Allah means supernatural being. Most people misunderstand this.

Now I will state it again since some people are too lazy to read thoroughly. I am not here to have a religious debate. I stated that with my first comment. Some folks wished to stir the fire. The only reason that i have posted this, and a few others, was to point out that you cannot take something out of context otherwise you will misguided view. Let's get back on topic to the op's post.

 

See, I like this response. This is a well thought out response. Not just where I highlighted either. I particularly agree with what is being said about the culture these laws were created in.

I have nothing to argue with.

 

There is much I wish to say about these verses. The problem is that they can be interpreted differently, and to say to take the whole Bible literally is in some cases very morally wrong to todays society.

'Seizes' and 'violated her' are still rather powerful words to use. Why use these words instead to say the man simply did lay with her? As it says when there is adultery of a women meant to marry, it just says they are lying together and they deserve to die. So of course I'm going to interpret the uses of those two words much differently in comparison. Alas, that happens everywhere in the Bible though, and can't really be discussed to an end in most cases.

Even in the last verse it uses the word 'seizing' to construe rape, or am I misunderstanding that last verse? Just wanted to make sure we are seeing this.

The OP brought up religion when bringing up Gay Marriage, so I think this is a perfectly understandable aspect of the conversation that can go on in here.

 

I'm a christian... and as far as gay marriage/gay sex is concerned here is my view:

I really don't care. I'm not here to judge someone on any basis whatsoever. It's not my job to judge someone. Jesus said ,"Let he who has never sinned cast the first stone." I'm a huge sinner and I'll openly admit that, just as everyone else is. We are all imperfect, we all have our faults, flaws, shortcomings, weaknesses, and vices that makes us so. I believe in forgiveness and redemption, mercy and healing. I believe that whether you are a murderer, a rapist, a thief, or a homosexual there is always a chance at redemption and forgiveness for those that truly seek it. I'll not look at your or treat you any different for being gay, even if I don't really agree with your life style choice.

But honestly why do gays want to get married...marriage is such a piece of shit anyway. There's no happiness in it, only pain, regret, hate, and resentment. I mean honestly its not that big a deal in my opinion, plus there are a lot of bigger issues facing our nation right now than gay rights such as um...UNEMPLOYMENT, SKYROCKETING NATIONAL DEBT, the list goes on and on.

 

I believe the Golden Girls said it best

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xxpd3Ye0zA

 

Should their wedding song be "What What, In the Butt?"

 

If that is meant to make a serious argument about not bothering to defend to a homosexuals right to marry, that is a very weak one.

 

I thought this was America where people are supposed to be treated equally, you know where we have Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness, what gives me or anyone else for that matter the right to take their happiness away from them?

 

Actually its a strong one... seriously marriage is bullshit anyway. Stay single and mingle and don't get caught up in the politics and semantics of marriage. Marriage sucks and everyone knows it. It's like me bitching about not having cancer.

 

I'll leave that alone.

 

Good you know i'm right lol.

Cancer= slowly killing you from the inside out.
Marriage= slowly killing you from the outside in.

 

As you might know, the bible was translated from Hebrew into English. The Hebrew language can be difficult to translate. If you read the verses fully and not just pick out words in one verse to mean the same in another, you'll understand it better. Notice that in the one verse seizes means consensual, so the man must now pay the woman's father for taking her virginity? Now in the next, seizes is meaning rape. The man must die for violating the woman. you hav to remember certain words also have different meanings depending on the tone in which someone is speakig, or how something is written. Think of the word "love." I write a letter and say the " I love my girlfriend Vanessa very much." Then I write down that "I love my best friend Brad." The word love has two different meanings there. Naturally i love Vanessa vastly different than I do Brad. This is something a lot of people do not take into account. I appreciate your civil reply to my post instead of being rude I will state again that i have no problem with gay marriage. Also, I do not agree that just because two men or two women get married, the term marriage should be changed. It should be universal to apply to all marriages.

 

Gonna have to say, I think it's bullshit about all gay marriage legislation. Gay folk wanna get married. Let 'em. If neither of the gay couple has a history in child abuse, why not let them adopt ?

Can't stand people forcing other people to behave a certain way, bending them to their will for the sake of a god. Living in constat fear, shame, and guilt over nature. If that's not evil, I don't know what is.

 

Yeah I just still struggle with the language thing. Not that you are wrong. I've always thought about how the Bible has been translated through so many languages how can it not get misconstrued? My religious professor said well that human language flaw idea, so I really take the Bible with a grain of salt personally.

And you're welcome. I've no interest in attacking you. I do get heated up to the way women get treated in the Bible and it's sometimes used in todays world. If I want to wear pants, I'm gonna wear pants. lol

 

I would love to learn how to speak and read Hebrew. Then I would be able to get a better understanding of it. In the Hebrew language, the bible is written to read left to right, right to left, up, down and diagonal. Very complex.

I have no problem with women wearing pants. I enjoy tight jeans on a woman:excited:. I understand the meaning of why women are required to cover themselves. You have to remember that in the bible "Fallen Angels" slept with women because the women were so attractive. Thus, women were required from then on out to cover themselves so they wouldn't be tempting to the "Fallen Angels." That is the way that I see it. Things have changed, and will continue to do so.

I agree that women are still being treated bad in today's world. I think a lot of so called "Christians" are hypocrites and do not understand the true meaning of the bible and take things out of context.

Heck, I wear things I shouldn't lol.

 

ah my friend but now you take a stab at single mums and single fathers as well as homosexuals.

and its not true a gay couple can raise children just as well as a strait couple.

have a right to be against gay marrage to fight to keep your petty views and think homosexual marrage is wrong but we have a right to call you ignarent to fight to be equals