This is what I mean when I say that there are a lot of apparent contradictions in the Bible, though many Christians speak as if it were one iconic piece of work handed down directly from God, never to be questioned. Deuteronomy, in particular, is often shockingly brutal in its prohibitions. The first time I really dug into that stuff I thought, I don't want to have anything to do with a God like this and I think some Christians would be stunned if they studied it more closely. As you suggest, I think that there was a gradual evolution in the ways that Jews conceived of God over time, reaching towards a more loving relationship with God, and then the New Testament represented a big leap forward via Christ.

 

Well, we have no idea what Jesus actually said. There are multiple conflicting stories within the Bible itself, all handed down through various sources over time, in ancient languages that can be interpreted in different ways. This is part of the reason why I'm mistrustful of a strict literal interpretation of the Bible.

 

What kind of leading question is that? I mean, seriously? Don't you love doing what is right (being ethical) above anything else? I sure hope so. Sometimes there are greater callings in life. When Lucius Junius Brutus' sons conspired against him to restore the Tarquinian dynasty, he did what the Republican law commanded and had them executed. It was part of the Roman virtue of Severitas--being strict in order to defend what is good.

But I know where is going--to the idiotic proposition that God would command us to murder our own children. You DO know that YHWH gave Israel and Judah over to their enemies partly because of child sacrifice....

 

DL. You're a believer in evolution, As is the church, and most Christians aside from those in America.

How do you square evolution with Genesis, the creation story, hence Adam's sin, also known as original sin, and thus the whole point of Christianity and Jesus?

 

Still, the majority of Biblical scholars agree that most early Christians believed the in physical existence of Heaven and Hell...

 

Are you trying to imply God does not approve of Child sacrifice? Lol

 

I see the Bible as a religious anthology inspired but not dictated by God. That is the way non Fundamentalist Christians see it.

 

Do you believe the man we know as "Jesus" was divine ?

 

Put me down as "don't know."

The divinity of Jesus has presented Christianity with logical difficulties.

 

I'm not trying or implying anything. Go back to theology class, little boy. What you are implying is not an argument made in good faith nor is supported by scriptural logic.

Manasseh engaged in idolatry and in doing so shed "innocent" blood (the Hebrew word used is "naqiy" naw-kee and the phrase is reminiscent of the commandement given in Deuteronomy 19:10 and a reference made in Psalms 106:38 which explicitly mentions child sacrifice) He also sacrificed his first born son by making him "pass through the fire"--an act which is against the commandment given in Deuteronomy 18:10. YHWH is extremely upset with these acts and even after King Josiah came to the throne--even after his bloodly purge of all idolatrous influences--YHWH was still upset by Manasseh's crimes and gave Judah over to Assyrian invaders.

When you debate someone, you need to assume your opponent is a person with common decency. Alleging that I support child sacrifice is infuriating and not even worthy of a rebuttal. A heckler's rubbish worthy of eschewal...

 

Do you support God sacrificing his own son for your sins?

 

Jesus is God incarnate, dude. Hence the whole point of Christianity.

Do you not understand the Trinity?

 

You suprise me, DL. Although the Bible is not a scientific manual nor literally true in the strictest sense, the Word of God goes back thousands of years and evident the survival and success of the Jewish people today. The New Testament helped to bring about the first great liberal revolutions of Western civilizations in which ALL believers are equal before God--something that wasn't even universally accepted by Temple Judaism at the time...

 

That is a good quote from Romans 10:5-13.

 

Let's talk about the whole point of Christianity for a minute.

God created the world in 6 days(which we know to be false).

In this world he created a paradise, and in this paradise he created some humans(false again), let's call them Adam and Eve.

God tells Adam he can't eat a special fruit, but Eve (the disobedient FEMALE) convinces him to eat that fruit, after she was manipulated by a serpent.

As a result of this outrageous act, Adam brings forth the Fall of Man.

From them on, ALL humans are born in sin, ALL humans are guilty, and ALL humans will be punished for ETERNITY.

But there is a way out, a righteous path, It is simple, they can seek redemption through Jesus.

Jesus being not only God's son, but also God himself, and was sent by God, born of a 13 year old Virgin girl, to be tortured and crucified, in order for him to die and then be resurrected, so Humans could then believe in Jesus, and be freed of that 'original' sin.

And this god is supposed to be forgiving ? He sounds a little bit mental, and that is without the all the genocide, infanticide, xenophobia, slavery, homophobia, sexism, rape and a world wide flood lurking about in the old testament.

 

Well, dave, since I am on a porn forum, I will reveal a Hebrew scripture that I ponder on constantly...

Isaiah 55:8-9

8“For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways My ways,” declares the LORD.

9“For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are My ways higher than your ways
And My thoughts than your thoughts.

\

 

So what meaning do you personally draw from that bit of scripture ?

 

There are a lot of things that I don't know about the nature of God. As DL mentioned earlier, there are some apparent logical difficulties embedded within Christianity. I, personally, do not have an explanation for such difficulties but I still believe in YHWH, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit of God...

 

The doctrine that God the Father sacrificed his Son to atone for the sin of Adan can be inferred from certain passages of St. Paul's epistles. It is not found in the Apostles' Creed or the Nicene Creed. It is not the way most Christians understand their faith. It is not part of the appeal of Christianity.

During the first century AD that doctrine did make sense of the Crucifixion. During his ministry many, perhaps most of Jesus' followers expected him to end the Roman occupation of Judea.

If you want to debate theology with those who believe that the Bible is the inherent word of God, looking for those people on a pornographic website is probably not the best use of your time. I suggest you find an internet forum that attracts Protestant Fundamentalists, and debate them.