I agree this is a difference but I struggle to understand how you can not believe that chance has a major factor in all things, whether that be the physics of the universe or the lives we lead. Would you not agree that had you been born into a different family your life would have been very different? Taking it a step further, what if your mother had been on drugs when you were in the womb and that left you with a disability?

I like you too, you seem a reasoned non-judgemental person with a good heart from what I have read in your posts. In fact you put me to shame in terms of your contribution to your fellow man.

 

A certain amount of money is necessary however it is amazing that for all those who claim to hate money and those who have it,

it seems to me those same ones are the first in line to buy a lottery ticket....

go figure????

 

Just to be clear, I totally accept that liberal views are equally a psychological defence mechanism for the poor.

If I was poor I would rather think that it was not all my fault than that I was a total failure responsible for my situation.

So why do I choose a liberal view when I am not poor? Personally I believe it is because I have a positive view of human beings and that given the right upbringing and opportunities we all want to do the right thing. When I see someone who is not doing the right thing my instinct is to believe that their actions are the result of their life experience rather than their soul or DNA. I believe in people's character being mainly a product of nurture rather than nature.

From my side of the fence (and I do realise my views are informed from that perspective of being on the "other side") I see Conservative views as being more based on the belief that people are a product of their nature rather than nurture. This to me seems a less forgiving and dare I say it less "Christian" view (now that's ironic).

 

I certainly don't hate money, I love the stuff, it feeds people and gives them opportunities to do wonderful things.

I doubt you will find any poor person hates money, that's a stupid thing to say really.

I hate it when people with money don't appreciate their good fortune and look down upon those less fortunate than themselves. That is an entirely different thing.

 

Would you believe that this conservative totally agrees with that view? Nature plays a much larger role in a persons drive to survive, than "nuture" does, however. Primitive man did not have a social services person to deliver his sustenance, he had to fight to get it. Then he learned to live in a social grouping which helped each other by specializing, nest builders, farmers, hunters, gatherers, builders, etc. Someone who was not pulling his weight was either kicked in the ass or kicked out of the group. Today we let them mix in and give them what they need to live "normally" regardless of their contribution. We probably need to find somewhere in the middle.

What is wrong with helping a person learn to help himself? That is one of the most basic Christian tenets that there is.

 

Money in itself is not evil....

it is the "Love" of money which is evil.....

 

Your point is well made. I write too much; one section of a previous post discloses I have an immediate family member who is disabled..it's due to a debilitating illness...he'll never work.

It would be a heartless person who would not care for the ill, disabled, or downtrodden. In fact, my wife and I benefited from a government subsidy medical program when we were first married.we had no choice and are thankful it was available. I would never suggest such programs be cut, and I affirm I'm fortunate to be healthy and to live in this time and place. These opportunities of which I speak are limited to able bodied men and women who can capitalize on them should they choose.

in case someone asks i am college educated, but degrees were paid for by me (with a few grants and scholarships helping out...not to mention loans). The second degree I earned while working a full time job. That was tough for sure. But without it I wouldn't be where I am today, which I think is a good place.

I'm sure you help out a lot of people Yaztromo. Sometimes I feel as if what I do is a mile wide and an inch deep. Is not the quantity it's then quality. I subscribe to the mentality of looking for opportunities to help when I can. Random acts of kindness and compassion...even the smallest thing can make a big difference. One doesn't have to be rich, famous, or a star to help someone in need.

Today I took an hour off work to run a lady to her bible study at church. I don't particularly like not dislike that lady, but I knew she was without wheels and sorely needed a rides. I could ill afford the hour away but did it (still have that work to do before I can hit the sack). Friday I'm helping at a funeral, Saturday a wedding, and Sunday at church.

In Pa I volunteer with several different (diverse) orgs, am on several boards, most all of those people are republicans. I think both dems and repubs get a bad rap, and neither can be trusted. Don't trust your preacher either...always verify.

My goal is too understand the issues, follow how my rep votes, and breathe down his neck when he does something stupid. If he does it enough perhaps I'll take his seat. Who knows. It's up to we the people to affect change as government seems to have neither the desire nor fortitude to pull it off. We cannot afford for this to fail

 

Unfortunately, you make a couple of errors in this line of thinking, making your argument almost impossible to substantiate. After you've successfully defined "liberal" and "conservative" precisely, you'll need to find people (anyone!) who is only one or the other across the arc of their political opinion/behavior. After you've done that, you'll have a ridiculously small sample size that has no relevant bearing on the rest of humanity

I know it's easy to just plop people into large & easily understood categories, then ascribe to them traits that are impossibly stereotypical . . . it may be superficially satisfying, but I believe it undermines more sophisticated thinking and encourages the kind of ignorance that those on the far ends of the political spectrum seem to get off on - no thanks :razz: