I hear what you are saying, but to me the word "preference" doesn't signify a choice, it merely implies which you prefer. I prefer red wine to white, I may choose to buy red wine over white, but I didn't choose to prefer red over white.

 

But you'll drink either, right? If you prefer red wine and go to a party where they're only serving white wine, it's no big deal because you like wine.

Now, going on the assumption that you're heterosexual, is it really a matter of you prefer women, but if you had no luck at the club tonight picking up a woman, well what the hell, you and your buddy will just head home "make do"?

 

On a personal level, I do not drink white wine at all, the taste and smell make me nauseous. But again I hear what you are saying, I prefer vanilla ice cream to chocolate, but I will settle for chocolate if there is no vanilla. However, the assumption that I will settle for chocolate stems from that in the context of food, it's possible to have multiple likes and dislikes, rather than it stemming from the use of the word "preference".
Sexual orientation# isn't absolute either. We categorise people as Straight, gay and bisexual, but the reality is it's more of a continuous scale. With some bisexuals more straight leaning, and other bisexuals leaning more the other way.

# I really don't like the use of the word "orientation" to describe a person's sexuality, basic attitude, beliefs, or feelings in relation to a particular subject or issue etc. In physics orientation is a very specific thing which I'm quite comfortable with, not sure who had the word first, but I'd like to claim it for mathematics.

 

So-called bisexuality does tend to confuse the issue.

So-called transgenderism confuses the issue even more.

Part of the problem-- can you see it?-- is that many types of gender identification disorders tend to be lumped together into a single category. And since gender identity lies at the core of self, the study of these disorders is taboo, and thus we simply don't know much about them.

Above, osakibl correctly points out that all people begin as females, and that hormonal changes at various points in prenatal development activate gender differentiation. However he then goes on to voice a popular belief that is most likely erroneous. He says that small differences in chemical levels at various times can cause errors of gender identification including the development of the fetus into the "wrong gender."

This is almost always never the case. An XY chromosome almost always produces a male. An XX chromosome almost always produces a female. We do not become the "wrong" gender. We are almost always male, and almost always female. And since these categories nearly always correlate with XY/XX chromosomes, the two are nearly always correct.

Yes, there is such a thing as human hermaphroditism, and if one were to go by the pix/vidz "shemale" sections in porn sites such as this, one would think the deformity is common. It is not. True hermaphroditism is exceptionally rare, despite the invention of Adobe Photoshop. Moreover, it is almost never a case of true dual sexuality, as can be found in primitive lifeforms such as hydra and worms. Human hermaphroditism nearly always is a disorder of secondary sexual characteristics, such as the presence of a malformed vaginal tract and oversized clitoris. Human hermaphrodites almost never possess the ability to both inseminate females and bear children. In other words, they almost never have both working testes, working ovaries, and a working uterus. Humans cannot impregnate themselves.

Moreover, stories of homosexuality in nature are overblown, confabulated, and almost always false.

Somewhere above there is a reference to "gay giraffes." (Someone has watched Gladiator one too many times.) In the Boston Globe newspaper (an infamous gay propagandist rag), I once read a front page story about the sweet romance of two lesbian swans. I have also read stores about male horses masturbating each other.

This is all nonsense.

Many female birds share in nurture roles due to population pressure. Horses rub each other, but it never results in ejaculation, because the motivation is not a sexual instinct; they swat flies with their penes. The giraffe behavior (camels, too) is most likely something similar: a grooming instinct by which they rid each other of hard-to-reach parasites (or simply scratch each others' backs). Humans see them "mounting each other," because humans have dirty minds.

And that gets to the root of the disorders.

The only animals that really masturbate for pleasure are primates (humans, chimpanzees, and possibly others).

The only animals that really exhibit fetishist behavior are primates (same).

The only animals that really exhibit homosexual bonding are humans.

There is probably a reason. And I suspect we will find-- if we ever get over our taboos and conduct a serious inquiry-- that the reason has to do with a combination of many disorders and imbalances of the human/primate frontal cortex and metabotropic/hormonal systems with which we produce emotion and identify ourselves. From an evolutionary standpoint, these systems are quite young, less than a million years old, and unique to primates. The systems most likely have many points of failure, both in development and in expression.

These systems are the points of failure for many kinds of antisocial behavior that is considered to be dangerous and undesirable. There are most likely nonviolent disorders and deficits as well, which we tolerate either because the disorders are victimless or because we identify their expression with aspects of self.

Perhaps someday we will better understand the causes. Not to cure them, per se, but simply to better understand ourselves. But that understanding will require more maturity, and more open minds, than we possess now. I sometimes doubt that I will see it in my lifetime.

 

being gay is a matter of science. i think it is biochemistry and neuroscience in action. gays don't have a choice, to say that they do is the old ignorant opinion that some people with no understanding of the human mind took, to hide there lack of understanding.

 

As I posted in another thread (that was unrelated to this subject) studies of identical twins where one twin is gay finds that in a certain percentage (I think 60%) that the other twin is also gay.

Some try to say that this PROVES that being straight/gay/bi is hereditary.

Actually it PROVES the very opposite.

If being straight/gay/bi were hereditary (i.e., genetic/in the DNA) then in 100% of the cases where one identical twin is gay/straight/bi the other one would be also.

The fact that it's LESS THAN 100% PROVES that being gay/straight/bi is due to other factors.

In related news...

I was not born with a shemale fetish. I never even knew that such magical creatures even existed until I first saw one in PORN.

Neither was I born with a DP or anal fetish. It was learned behavior due to first seeing those things in PORN and thus shitting bricks.

 

I was born with a dog and horse fetish. My mom was a horse and my dad was a dog.

 

For me the causation is opposite from you. I was born with a female anal fetish. I seek out porn in which a woman is being anally penetrated; both lesbian and straight.

I too was not born with a shemale fetish. However, there is no amount of exposure, in the form of porn, to such creatures that will cause me to view them as 'magical' and develop a shemale fetish.

I believe a great deal of human sexuality is hereditary and/or biological. So we humans don't have a whole lot of control over what turns us (individually) on or off.

 

After reading the Bible at a very young age, maybe 11 or 12, I came to this conclusion, only the New Testament came from actual true Christians. Would Jesus reject homosexuals? Of course not. So in my opinion the Bible does not come into play regarding homosexuality.

 

I believe homosexuality is not a choice one makes. You either are from birth or you are not.

 

I do not think anyone is born gay.However I do believe what we are exposed to early in life helps sway us more one way than the other.

 

You must, by extension, not think that anyone is born straight. After all, newborn babies don't feel sexual urges for people of the opposite sex...

 

I was born gay.

 

Maybe you all should listen and understand the sentiment behind the lyrics in this song "Affirmation" by Savage Garden.

In particularly around the 1:15 section of the video "I believe you can't control or choose your sexuality..."





Or around the 1:47 section of this video with just the lyrics.

 

You are correct

 

Well Joe, the fact that identical twins are not always working with the same sexual orientation isn't proof that being gay is something you are born with. As I've explained to DL many times, genetics does NOT determine things like inteligence, disposition to violence, or sexual preferene.

I recall when I first started dating I was attracted to petite brunettes and lanky dark haired vixens. Then I dated a blonde with large breasts, and I was and remain smitten.

That ain't genetics. I think genetics determines if you're a petite brunette, or fiery red head or large breasted blonde, but you are the sum of your experiences when it comes to things like sexual preference. This isn't to say one can't be Gay from the giddy up; it says whatever way you are wired has more to do with experience than it does genetics. If genes played a central role, don't you think gays would begat gays, and no straight parent would have to deal with "Mom, Dad, I'm gay and I love Roger."

 

Correct. But, and additionaly, it isn't proof that being gay is NOT something you are born with. Genes are not the only things that determine heredity and/or congenital qualities.

 

Even the leading advocates realize being gay is essentially a cultural conditioned choice. Gay people try to rationalize their choice of lifestyle by saying they were born that way. I don't understand why people can't just own the choices they make instead of trying to legitimize them. Obviously,if it were in the natural order of things, procreation would be possible to ensure the survival of a species. But, two men can't make a baby nor can two women.

 

Hm, what's that smell?

Right, it's homophobia. I almost forgot what it was like.

 

The homophobia argument. There may be some that are, but for me, just own the choices you make. I don't hate gay people. But I also don't think it's right for the gay community to force others to like or agree with their lifestyle choices.