OK, I'm not American and I don't have your cultural baggage but when you see things like the Amish Schoolhouse shooting how can you think that a handgun ban wouldn't help?

Someone please explain this to me because I'm thinking:
Guns=bad
No guns=not so bad.

 

No argument from me, Trumpet. But this thing with guns is deeply embedded in the American psyche, it appears, dating back to frontier days. Someday, perhaps, we'll come to our senses.

 

Just because you ban guns doesn't mean that people can't get them. Most gun owners are law abiding people that have guns for their protection or for recreational shooting. Criminals don't care about laws, they'll find guns anyways. And if you ban guns, what do you do about the millions of guns that are already out there? I have several guns & some of those are so old that they are not registered to anyone. How can you control those? Anyway, the right to bear arms is in our Constitution, how are you going to argue with that? Also, some studies have shown drops in certain crime rates when concealed carry was passed into effect.

 

1) I'm not sure why you think the constitution is sacred and unchangeable. For a start many of the free speech aspects are being undermined by things like the patriot act so if it needs changing work out how to change it. But I'm not American, so what do I know?
2) You are right that if a criminal wants a gun badly enough they will get one. There is a handgun ban in the UK and there are still shootings, but not nearly so many as you have in the States. But why make it easy for them? The guy in Pennsylvania this week was a law abiding citizen, by all account, right up to the point when he pulled up outside the schoolhouse. If a similar mental breakdown happened in the UK there is a much much much smaller chance the whacko would have access to a gun. Hence, less deaths from gunshots.
3) Guns for personal protection: I understand that the stats show far more people being shot with their own guns in the states than shooting their attackers. Having guns around is no guarantee of safety. In fact, often it's quite the opposite.
4)yes there are already a lot of guns out there in circulation. But if you stop selling them and have some sort of amnesty to allow people to hand them in, and possibly get financial compensation but frankly I wouldn't bother, then you would vastly reduce the number of guns out there and therefore the number of deaths from firearms.

 

For the record, the 2nd Amendment doesn't actually protect the right to own handguns. If it did, gun advocates would have taken the Brady Bill to the Supreme Court, but they didn't, because they were afraid of getting the wrong answer. The gun lobby LOVES to talk about the 2nd Amendment, but they NEVER challenge gun laws in court. Funny thing, that....

 

Oh, and Kimiko, I kind of knew you'd be with me on this one.

 

I'm just a gun nut, so you'll hace to cut me a little slack.

As far as the Constitution being undermined by the Patiot Act... Why would you want to go farther if it's a problem already? My belief is we are losing more rights than we need to. Why would you want to take away more? I don't really think it's sacred or anything, but we are losing more rights than we need to. Why take away more?

And as for people getting shot with their own guns....good. Just cleaning up the gene pool in my opinion. Morons shouldn't own guns.

Also, if we had a gun ban and the amish school shooting guy couldn't get one..Who's to say he wouldn't have found another way to kill those people?

Just because you can reduce the number of shooting deaths doesn't mean that overall deaths will decline.

 

No, you are quite right. If you don't shoot them they will eventually die of something so you might as well just get it over with and blast away.

Or am I oversimplifying your argument? :roll:

And the stat about people killed with their own guns: It's usually, although I grant you not exclusively, someone else that shoots them with it, rather than them not knowing which end to point which way.

 

morons shouldn't own guns..... but if someone is going to purchase a gun and a licence, they should know how to handle it and use it intelligently. Even if they've only bought it for self protection. But guns should be kept in a safe but findable location in an emergency where children and others cannot get to it.

as for the shooting.... he would have found another way. It would have either been messier or a different scenario. The problem is that guns keep ending up in the hands of angry, bitter, grustled and not mentally well people. ( I don't mean people who have them for legit purposes eg for self protection). Banning guns altogther wouldn't help unless it was across the board and with a home and cavity search.... what would they do with them? dunno but if in the hands of state, guns would probably be sold to the Far East.
People will always find a way of killing eachother by whatever means if the motivation to do so is there.

 

They were just talking about this topic on the view thismorning lol.
I agreed with one of them though, it is mostly used for self defence, so taking that away would be bad.

 

KinkyCarrie,

Surely if you reduce the number of guns in circulation you reduce the chances of one of the angry, not mentally well people getting hold of the gun and killing someone with it.

And I do accept that when someone flips out to that extent they will find whatever way they can to do a terrible thing. But a bloke with a big knife has a much shorter range than a bloke with a little gun and there is far more chance for the intended victims to escape, and far more chance of surviving the attack if you don't.

 

theres no way they can ban guns.... its in the constitution that we have the right 2 bare arms... second... i own guns and have no intention on shooting anyone unless self defense... thirdly they should stop giving idiots like this guy guns

 

Your post claims the right to not have to wear long sleeves so on the idiot front I'm thinking you should be dropping your guns off at the nearest police station straight away. You have just disqualified yourself from gun ownership under your own criteria. What your constitution says is this:

Amendment 2 - Right to Bear Arms
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

 

partially agree with that...a good chance that a reduction in circulation would reduce that risk. but i think if someone is really intent on killing someone anyway, they'll find the means to do so, whether a gun is available or not, but would be part of the premeditation.

a guy with a big knife is worse than a guy with a gun. with a gun, yes you can fatally wound and kill someone if you can shoot accurately, and can use a gun properly. but they can miss too. and run out of bullets. but with a big knife, if you know where to stab someone you can do as much or worse damage. or if you know where to slit.... you could decapitate the person. if you had the right basic materials, you could make a few bombs and blow someone (or thing) up. The problem is not necessarily the object/method that is used, but more the individual using them and why. in other words, a very unhappy school kid has a variety of choices if they were motivated to kill someone that caused that emotion.

 

That still makes them an idiot in my book. I personally don't see many scenarios where I would get shot with my own guns.

 

Max, I hope you are right. But the fact is that nor did they.

 

I would assume, (but you know what happens when you do that) :lol: that they didn't take proper precautions. I feel confident in the way I handle my firearms.

 

Guns Guns Guns, Guns are bad "BULLSHIT".. don't you people realise it's the fucking idiots with the guns . Holy shit! if these nuts weren't using guns to kill with they'ed be hanging people with a piece of rope. Or smashing their skulls with ballpin hammers. That gun knows not to kill it's just a piece of metal.. You got to put it in the hands of an idiot. A damn butter knife in the hands of a fool can do the same thing or a boy scout hatchet. What else is there to say.. I'm keeping my guns I don't plan on hurting anyone with them either. Oh maybe a tin can Or a target...Execute these idiots don't leave them on death row for years guilty of murder when the verdict is read walk that SOB out of the court house and fry his ass.

 

Studies are fairly clear about this: that guns kept in the home, whether for self-defense or some other purpose, are many times more likely to injure or kill a family member than they are to injure or kill an intruder. And please don't tell me they're locked up and the kids don't know where the key is kept.

 

A lot of effort has been put forth to ban guns, but I personally do not want the government taking away another constitutional right..
OFF a bit: There are laws about truth in advertising, a company may be hit by a big fine. A politition seems to be exempt. Make the penelty for a lying polititian, to be shot.. and you will soon see a ban on guns..