We agreed that we could go on about this forever .

There is no established science and there never has been and there never will be .

The ptolomeic system existed for 2500 years before it was proven to be incorrect .
People believe that heavier objects fall faster than later ones for about that long as well .
Doctors used to prescribe cigarettes because they thought it was good for people's health .

So everything that I have read in scientific journals seems to suggest that there is no perfect bridge between race and intelligence through DNA .

Does not mean it doesn't exist it just means that it has not been established but often they go a step further and say if it has not been established it doesn't exist .

This is probably the best summation that I have found on the subject and it comes from the American psychological Association which I don't have a whole lot of appreciation for but you might

"In response to the controversy surrounding The Bell Curve, the American Psychological Association's Board of Scientific Affairs established a special task force to publish an investigative report focusing solely on the research presented in the book, not necessarily the policy recommendations that were made.[12] In their final report, titled Intelligence: Knowns and Unknowns,[13] some of the task force's findings supported or were consistent with statements from The Bell Curve. They agreed that:

• Intelligence test scores have a correlation of 0.5 with GPA and 0.55 with the number of years in school.[14]
• IQ scores have predictive validity for adult occupational status, even when variables such as education and family background have been statistically controlled.
• There is little evidence to show that childhood diet influences intelligence except in cases of severe malnutrition.

Regarding statements about other explanations for racial differences, the APA task force stated:

The differential between the mean intelligence test scores of Blacks and Whites (about one standard deviation, although it may be diminishing) does not result from any obvious biases in test construction and administration, nor does it simply reflect differences in socio-economic status. Explanations based on factors of caste and culture may be appropriate, but so far have little direct empirical support. At present, no one knows what causes this differential."

And in this gap of knowledge statistics and philosophy maybe actually ahead of the science

Many of the ancient Greek's realized that the Atom may be infinitely divisibleand it pretty much took until the 1930s to show that there were subatomic particles below protons and neutrons .

 

And by the way obsession works both ways one can be obsessed with differences in the race or one can be obsessed with the fact that there are no differences in race.
As for dogs clearly there are differences within breeds Afghan hound among the least intelligent and border collies among the most .

This is probably the third time I've mentioned this but why is it so much of a stretch to think that if there are differences between breeds of animals within the same species well why can't we extrapolate that to human beings?

Last that I heard we are animals .

 

And by the way while human beings may have come from a common ancestor and that is still somewhat questionable I hope the people understand that genetic mutations do occur.

From that so-called first ancestor to humans of today I am certain that many mutations had time to take place .
I hope that our American educational system has not failed us in teaching us this basic fact.

 

Purpose of this thread was to point out that because people have racist thinking what are you care ?

There are people who believe that God created the universe in six days and even created plants before there was light to drive their photosynthetic processes.

Elijah Mohammed believe that whites were created from a scientific cross between pigs and humans .

I believe he was also the one who said that black man should practice raping black women so that they can rape white women more effectively as compensation for racial prejudice .

All three of these are extremely racist points of view but what do I care ? And why have they not been called out as outrageous racism.

I think that race has become an issue to forestall further inquiry into political policy that people from the left think is settled science.

I think that is academically lazy

 

There are many different beliefs. Some based on facts and some based on thoughts. Some probably based on fairy tales.
People who have one belief do not think others are free to have a different belief. It is their way or the highway.
As science advances many of those beliefs have been proven wrong but that does not change the minds of the people.
They just pick and choose where they want to get their information and completely dismiss everything else.

 

That's what I was saying and in the context of a lack of absolute proof on a subject all one can really do is turn to statistics and common sense philosophy

 

Also I feel the need to say that a schnauzer is a schnauzer and a bull mastiff is a bull mastiff but a schnauzer is not a bull mastiff.

It's a complicated idea to take In I know but they are different .

 

I think it was Clarice who said that dogs are pretty much all the same

 

You could be right. There could be a connection between intelligence and DNA that hasn't been discovered. And yes, one can study the connection between race and IQ without bothering with DNA, but to do that one has to work with the societal definition of race; you know, since biologically, race is a meaningless term. At least at this point.

Which leads us right back to what Shooter has been saying; define the group(s) you want to study. Then validate your testing method. Then test. Lets see what the result is.

But you cannot use the "facts" from discredited sources like the Bell Curve Thingy, or crime stats, or IQ test results because none of them have a reliable definition of race, and especially not a definition of race that can be compared between say IQ test results and crime statistics. When people say stuff like "Blacks have crime rates 8 times greater than whites" what they are really saying is; "Niggers is stupid and violent".

The point is, as it stands today we simply cannot say why some groups perform less well on tests, why some groups are more violent, or why some groups are less successful. We haven't reliably defined the group yet, you see.

 

The findings in the bell curve have not been discredited and have even withstood a task force studying from the American psychological Association . I presented that but you apparently did not read it . But nice try .
I believe that the delineations of race within I Q studies are based on self reporting of race. Until the human genome is better bracketed empirically that and common sense will have to do .
OK shooter this is becoming ridiculous we can continue to waste each others time or we can recognize that I think your views are visceral and that you cherry pick the scientific studies that you like . You clearly think that my views are simply wrong and that philosophy is a silly discipline And commonsense is for common people and that I cherry pick my statistics .
Any differences that are ever found that point to differences in race will never be accepted in the mainstream university system because they are too politically charged . Too politically incorrect.
Are you enjoying this because I certainly am not and I am suggesting that we will never come to an agreement and we are going to be in a permanent impasse likely forever At least until the universe experiences the heat death.
I think our time would be better spent exchanging recipes for quiche .

 

Oh and shooter I would still like to see that police report that we talked about . The one where you single-handedly overpowered four really big guys and you had no back up and they were all so scared of you. If it's true then you must be like a Marvel comic book hero . I like reading about heroes .

 

it's funny,when I was a kid in school i played with black boys and girls, white kids to. we had oriental kids to and we got along back then. it's only when we got older when people started saying dont hang with that guy or girl because there this or that. it's stuped. were the same inside.I've seen black people help white people in a car crash,mexican people save a black baby from drowning in a river.were all good at haart.!!

 

Well you certainly said enough times that the book is severely flawed and I have given you reasons that others disagree with this.
Your description of the book is being stupid is interesting because I have never seen the word stupid used in peer-reviewed journals . Perhaps you were up on the latest lingo in the biz.
And anyone who makes up a story about them single-handedly beating up four huge people has no business casting aspersions about anyone else's dishonesty. You keep asking for proof of the things that I say so shooter prove this . Or are you simply a hypocrite As well as a liar?

 

Was Charles Manson good at heart was Idi Amin good at heart was Pol pot good at heart? I appreciate the fact that you probably do have a good heart but I'm afraid evidence from The Stanley Milgram study the most people do not . And once again I've gone far a field from the original point of this post . And that is that if people have racist ideas why do people care it's just their opinion

 

One reason people do not even like to have a discussion about race could be that it is so easy to prove there is a difference in races of people.
But if they ever accept that they will then see the need for changes.
The people I can't understand are those who will assure people there is absolutely no difference in race but will defend affirmative action.
Their own actions show them to be wrong.
If it is true that all races are equal why should one race be allowed to lower the standards for pretty much everything?
If we have equal IQs all races should have the same requirements for college entrances.
There should be no need for one race to allowed to compete for jobs with lower standards than other races.

 

People will say that you need affirmative action because the big bad white people have held black people down through carefully crafted discrimination . They will say it still exists only now it's subtle . However this does not explain why other people of color who have even experienced things like internment camps during World War II are doing so well . It's nonsense . In my professional life I have never seen even one incident of discrimination in fact quite the opposite

 

If a race of people need and want special treatment they should admit they lack something the other races have.
If they have to have lower scores why not admit they are not capable of learning like other races?
If they need some advantages so they can compete in the job marker against other they should admit they cannot compete.
That old excuse the white man is keeping us down will not work.
If you go to the same school, have the same teachers, even eat the same lunch as other people what is stopping you from performing the same?

 

by law it's still has to exist . You don't want to produce it because it never happened . That's why I get upset when people project bad qualities like this honesty on other people because for me it is simple projection. If it exists then at least tell us where the incident happened and the date . If not stop yanking us around .

 

There are 1 million excuses and unfortunately our government embraces them

 

Shooter doesn't have to prove anything or shooter can't prove anything ?

Two years ago I was approached by a motorcycle gang of at least a dozen people who tried to steal my purse . A quick judo chop to one of them brought him down and then after about 10 minutes of vicious fighting that included throwing stars I subdued all of the rest . Extra punishment included breaking each of their motorcycles in half with my bare hands .
Of course I can't prove this because it's a made-up story . Just like yours . I mean come on how stupid do you think we are ?