Ok I will go first. Here is my definition of "liberalism." Because if you know what you are talking about you should be able to define it. That's just common sense and reality.

Liberals believe that positive uses of our government include justice and equality. We believe in the rights the individual and the right to own property. Yet we also believe that the government must be able to intervene to remedy the defects of capitalism. We believe that there will always be poor people and we cannot just allow them to die in the streets so a social safety net must be provided. We believe that education is essential and must be provided by the government. And we believe that power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely so government regulations are required to protect all the rest of us from the greed and corruption of the few, powerful and wealthy.

And so now lets see some conservative put up a working definition of what conservatives believe. Because if you know what you believe you should be able to say it shouldn't you?

 

At its best conservatism is the belief that there is much in the present that ought to be conserved, and that one should study history and learn from it. It is the belief that human nature is not infinitely malleable, so well meaning reforms may have unexpected and undesirable results. The true conservative distrusts abrupt changes in any direction - including backwards - as he distrusts untried social and economic experiments.

At its best liberalism is the belief that the inequities of the status quo, and particularly of capitalism can be softened by governmental reforms.

Too many conservatives and too many liberals allow their feelings to determine their judgement of what is true. This is particularly unfortunate when they are motivated by hatred.

 

Horseshit, that is the text book definition of liberalism in the 18th century, when the USC was drafted, along with the BoR.

Today, it is the complete oppsite, it's you liberals that change defintion to fit your agenda...

EPIC FAIL...

Try again

 

Why can't anyone tell us what conservatism is?

 

I thought I did earlier.

 

It's simple.

Personal responsibility

Abiding by the law

Preserving the USC...(as it was initially intended)

Earn your keep

Limiting Government as it was intended to be.

It's not that hard to figure and understand.

 

1. commitment to traditional values and ideas with opposition to change or innovation.
2. the holding of political views that favor free enterprise, private ownership, and socially conservative ideas (the doctrines of the Conservative Party of Great Britain or a similar party elsewhere.)

 

You failed.

 

The General is on a rant today!

First, if you want to debate "the lie of conservatism" then it is your obligation to define what you mean by "conservatism". Shooter has seen your "examples" of the lies of conservatism, but that does not help him understand with any clarity what it is you are so pissed about.

Second, the fact that Shooter supports a revolution does not automatically make him a defender of whatever it is you mean when you froth about "conservatism". Shooter has pointed out many times that the revolution is aimed at the robbers in Congress, regardless of political party or political leanings. Shooter has clearly defined who the revolution wants out of office (elected officials who have improved their net worth using their elected office). Shooter has identified the process to uncover these robbers.
"Shooters revolution" has nothing to do with "Conservatism". Whatever it is you mean by that.
But you already know that.

Third, Shooter still avoids playing chess with pigeons.

 

First of all @shootersa I identified "conservative values" when I pointed out why they are lies. And if conservatives don't like that it is up to them to define "conservatism" just like I defined liberalism below.

And shootersa you and your imagined "revolution" is completely hollow when you constantly defend Trump and attack liberal/progressive/Democrats but can never answer simple straightforward questions and even if they are just asking what you think.

So I will get back to exposing more lies of conservatism a little later. Right now I am headed to a car show because I am part of a pit crew for a racing car that will be on display.

 

See? Pigeon. Chess.
You started this thread and even titled it; The lie of conservatism.....
Identifying "conservative values" so you can rant about them does not define what you mean when you shout "conservatism."
If you can define what you mean when you say "conservatism" we might be able to have an adult conversation. Doubtful. But Shooter is willing to try.

Second, Shooters defense of Trump has nothing to do with the revolution. But you already know that.

Third, being part of a pit crew in your case is a bit ironic, don't you think?

 

No I did not. My explanation was over your head.

 

Your explanation wasn't worth wasting time on, knowing that, I didn't read it.

 

Have you ever noticed how lies have to keep getting bigger and bigger?

Take, for example, the lie of the sexual revolution. It started out being a kind of hippie dream. You could “love the one you’re with” and with artificial contraception, have complete and joyful sexual freedom.

But it didn’t stop there. It couldn’t stop there. Happy, carefree heterosexual sex had to also be just as open to homosexuals and then to just about any body who wanted to do anything they could imagine with anyone they pleased.

And it didn’t stop there. Sexual identity also had to be open ended. A man could dress up as a woman or a woman could try ever so hard to be a man. There were to be no sexual role boundaries. Everyone could not only do whatever they wanted, they could be whatever they wanted.

Eventually the lie becomes so big that it is monstrous in its enormity. So now a woman who has kept her reproductive organs, but had surgery and hormones to be more like a man can conceive and give birth and progressives will say, “Did you hear? John gave birth yesterday.” If anyone declares that the emperor is nude and says “No. A man can’t give birth. She calls herself ‘John’ but we all know she is really Joanne.” That caller out of emperors will be hounded as “transphobic” and whatever else names need to be called.

This is what we might call the ephemeral nature of lies. Lies are insubstantial. They are nothing in themselves. They are distortion of the truth. Consequently, like anything destructive, they do not have any measure of integral dynamic. They can’t stand on their own. They are parasitic on the truth.

A lie, taken far enough, must eventually cave in on itself. It must collapse because it has no inner strength or substance.

Truth, on the other hand, is a mountain. It is there. It can be denied. It can be ignored, but it remains. The problem is, unless truth is lived and proclaimed dynamically it simply remains there like a mountain. To often all the energy is on the part of the Father of Lies, who works as hard as he can to ignore or distort or destroy the Truth.

What we are witnessing in Trump’s America (whether you love him or loathe him) is the collapse of the liberal lie. The liberals lied about sex. They lied about family. They lied about race. They lied about poverty. They lied about riches. They lied about almost everything because their philosophy is built on the foundational lie of relativism.

The spoilt lying child, when caught out, will usually either sulk or throw a temper tantrum or throw something else. This is what will happen on a massive scale. You will see more protests, more irrational rage, and (I fear) more rioting and violence.

The problem with the liberal lie collapsing is what will take its place. What should take its place is a society of faith and reason–a society that is just, generous, educated and compassionate–a society that is gentle but firm, caring but honest.

But a society like that must be built on a strong basis of faith, self discipline, self control and self sacrifice. A society like that is built through hard work, devotion to duty and honor towards others.

Does that look like America today? I hate to be too pessimistic, but I see a society that is likely to drift from the liberal lie to the lie of the other side–the belief that a restrictive, tyrannical and oppressive government is the answer to one that was permissive and weak.

We should all think and pray and keep our eyes wide open.

 

I consider my myself conservative based on my moral and religious views. I do not relate to the initial post that began this thread. I relate more with what Two Cards posted above. Americans took a wrong turn in the sixties with the sexual revolution, anti war, pro drug generation.

 

Ok now we have some more prefect examples of the lie of conservatism as it is preached and practiced in this nation and the preachers that preach that lie. Let's have a look.

Personal responsibility

Ok first of all this is just utter nonsense bullshit. Conservatives don't have a lock on "personal responsibility." Almost everyone believes in having personal responsibility and taking personal responsibility for their actions and beliefs so these are just a couple buzz words "conservatives" tried to glob onto as if they have some meaning.

But let's also look at what a lie it is for conservatives to preach they believe in personal responsibility with two examples staring us in the face right now and right here on our little forum.

One of them is Trump who almost never takes personal responsibility for anything. He constantly plays the eternal victim blaming everyone else except himself. And he also constantly lies. Often just stupid outrageous lies that are proven lies over and over and over again. And not only does Trump not take any personal responsibility the vast majority of "conservatives" don't hold him responsible either and in fact in most cases enables his lies.

And another example is right there on our little forum because taking personal responsibility also includes admitting it when people post things that are wrong and/or false. But we hardly, if ever, see the conservatives on this board take any responsibility for that and instead they just keep posting more lies even after they have been proven to be lies.

So they preach "personal responsibility" but they don't practice it.

Abiding by the law

And again this is just utter bullshit. The vast majority of people in this country are law abiding and believe in laws. That isn't something "conservatives" do and everyone else does not obey the law or have respect for the law.

But lets look at where the lies come in. If Donald Trump Jr violates US Campaign laws by colluding with Russians the majority of conservatives, especially on this board, sure don't abide by that. Instead they make up excuses for him. They deny any laws were broken. And again play the eternal victims claiming the press is persecuting them and Trump by reporting on it.

Other glaring examples are abortion and same sex marriage. The Supreme Court ruled nearly 45 years ago that a woman has a constitutional right to an abortion. But instead of "abiding" by that law "conservatives" have been trying to deny that right for decades up to and including bombing abortion clinics and killing doctors. And there has been a never ending string of state and federal laws designed to prevent a woman from exercising her constitutional right to have an abortion and those efforts are rampant now.

And it is the same way with same sex marriage. Instead of "abiding" by the law as it was handed down by the Supreme Court "conservatives" applaud when other "conservatives" try to defy that law and scream the Supreme Court must put their religious beliefs above the law even though the First Amendment forbids it.

So again "conservatives" love to preach "abiding by the law" but that is a lie because they do not practice what they preach.

Preserving the USC...(as it was initially intended)

And just another example of utter bullshit. The vast majority of Americans also believing in not only preserving the constitution but actually obeying it. Conservatives don't own the constitution. It belongs to all of us.

But the lie conservatives tell is preserving the constitution as initially intended. Because written right into the very beginning of the constitution is that the courts and especially the Supreme Court will determine what is and is not constitutional. And especially in the case of the Supreme Court they are the law of the land and once they make a determination that is it.

But again "conservatives" don't want to live under the constitutions as it was originally written and instead try to claim there is some other kind of constitution that has no bearing in fact and/or reality.

Earn your keep

And again just utter bullshit as if only "conservatives" work for a living instead of the vast majorities of Americans working for a living and believing in earning their keep. These are just meaningless buzz words.

But here again is where the lie of conservatism comes in. They decry people receiving welfare but have no problem at all with corporations receiving subsidies from the government. Or Tax havens for corporations and the wealthy to help them avoid paying taxes.

Limiting Government as it was intended to be.

And this is just an obvious lie on the part of conservatives. They preach this but then turn right around and support the government turning private employers into a national extension of a police force by requiring them to do drug testing. They have no problem at all with government trying to expand laws designed to keep a woman from getting an abortion. And right now most conservatives don't have a problem with the Trump administration demanding states hand over all the personal information of their voters.

So conservatives love to preach limited government but its just a lie because they actually practice the opposite.

And take note again. Conservatives fall back on a bunch of meaningless bullshit buzz words that have no basis in reality but they cannot tell us what conservatives believe and why its not a lie.

 

We all know what a hardcore supporter of the USC Stumbler is. We see it every week in the gun rights thread by his support of the liberal NRA which defends the second amendment.

 

I am glad to see that Stumbler supports earning your keep. I was worried he might support entitlement programs, rather than working to support yourself.

 

So how does this work in real life? What was wrong about the sexual revolution? What was wrong with opposing the War in Viet Nam? What is a "pro-drug" generation?

If you had your choice, what would you change about today's society?

 

I am disappointed that Stumbler feels someone who reports to work drunk or high should be required to submit to drug testing. Perhaps we should just allow employees to get behind the wheel of an eighteen wheeler and take out an entire family?