No circle talk. I’m asking you when exactly when you think the baby becomes human enough to be granted the protection of a human being. It sounds like you are saying that it is when it becomes viable enough to live outside the mother. This is the question you will not answer. Is that the point when a woman can no longer demand an abortion? Yes or no!

 

As often as Shooter and SIR disagree, on this point we do agree;
1) it is absolutely the womans right to abort her pregnancy for any or no reason right up to the point that a fetus is viable.
2) viability of a fetus is a medical determination that can be made on a case by case basis, but generally after 25 weeks, with modern medical advances, a fetus is considered viable.

 

A fetus can’t possibly have a sense of itself in the first trimester but in the second it may be another story. The Supreme Court allows unregulated abortions through the first trimester. It respects the humanity of the baby through the second and third. I have a baby on the way in the first trimester and even though it’s mother definitely wants to keep it the issue is pretty tender for me.

 

Well, shooter learned a week ago that he's going to be a grandpa.
You may recall that Shooters daughter is adopted, and that she has had two miscarriages, so yeah, this is a tense time. Her Dr. Believes that if she can get past 15 weeks she should certainly have a successful pregnancy.

And as an aside, she is rabidly anti choice. She believes that once pregnant the mothers rights are secondary to the babies, that the mother has the absolute obligation to protect that life. Even if rape is involved, and yes, she's been raped so she has a right to her opinion.

 

Wow! Fingers crossed! We're excited for you.

 

Shooter, I wish you the best as well and I won’t even try to tell you what the mother of my baby had gone through with men. Imagine the worst and you would be about right. Women go through so much that I wonder what possible attraction they could even have for men. We have another little three year old that continues to be our little matchmaker so when we argue we have our little one to remind us us to be grown ups for her and the one on the way. Ironic huh?

 

First off this is the absolute truth of the matter, if men gave birth we would not be having any of this discussion, not at all, ever.

 

That's a ridiculously asinine thing to say but I shouldn't be surprised given the person who said it.

 

Seems you have gotten over emotional on all subjects of interest.

In my mind, there is no room in politics for emotions to play an active roll in it.

 

I have friends and family members that are on both sides of the argument, some are pro life some are pro choice, and with the exception of the few extremists all agree that abortion is a choice that should be left up to the woman and her doctor. We also have members of the circle that are anti gay and some that are pro gay and minus the extreme few there is an agreement that it is a personal thing.
Unfortunately we have members that are hard right and hard left and they refuse to accept anything that does not conform to their idealism and religion. Most are more realistic and see that people are all different, the open minded understand that if we were all the same life would suck but by being open to opinions that differ from our own we have a chance to learn things that we do not know.
My parents were (well dad was and mom still somewhat is) strict Catholics, things like birth control and abortion are completely off the table, homosexuality and transgenderism are beyond thought. Turns out that several family members and old family friends are gay, one of the men my dad went to college with is now a woman, but I digress, telling a woman that she can be denied what is promised her by a Constitutional amendment and settled Supreme Court decision is akin to another form of law that most Americans love to tout about Muslim Sharia Law that denies a woman all rights as a human.
I am open to opinions other than my own, I just do not have to accept them. I also do not have to accept that most laws are written by people that use their own beliefs to govern the masses. It is like the idea that the tax payers should not have to pay for Viagra for old men.

 

Twenty-five members of the Alabama State Senate voted to pass the nation's most restrictive abortion bill on Tuesday — and every single one of them were white men. On Wednesday, the state's Republican female governor, Kay Ivey, signed the bill into law.

After hours of discussion, the Senate on Tuesday passed the near-total abortion ban in a 25 to 6 vote. Of the 35 senators in the state, four are women, and they are all Democrats.

All 25 of the male senators to vote "yes" on the bill were Republicans. Of the eight Democrats in leadership, six voted "nay" on the bill – including two female senators, Linda Coleman-Madison and Vivian Davis Figures. Three senators, two Republicans and Democrat Sen. Priscilla Dunn, did not vote or were not present for the vote. Democrat Sen. Malika Sanders-Fortier abstained from voting.

 

I don’t have the time to argue incessantly on this topic with people who would never even consider changing their minds. No sense arguing with True Believers (an Eric Hoffer reference) I’m rather surprised that so many do wish to expend so much energy on a topic that produces so much more heat than light. My position is clear. And I am not anti choice no matter how much one of you wants to fit me into that category with his shoehorn. The fact is that about 50 million abortions have been performed since Roe. Some sources say 40 million and some about 60. That seems awfully casual and abortion should never be used as a method of birth control. We are after all ending a life. It’s a woman's choice, yes, but that choice is not completely open ended. And it’s intriguing to me that some women can say that it’s none of her partner’s business if she has an abortion (is it not his baby too?) but if she carries it to term then he is responsible for child support (because it’s his baby!) The man is left with no choice in either scenario . Perhaps the debate and the anger from some women is about female empowerment over men. Now these are my last thoughts on this topic and I will return to productive activities. I will take no further part in this discussion in this forum.

 

This whole "white men" thing cracks me up seeing as most of the people who bring it up are not just white but privileged.

So is it better when it's a privileged white woman making laws you don't like? You all sure seem to make that out to be the case.

If you don't like who is in office then vote them out. If you don't vote then shut up because you've decided to remove your voice from the only place it actually matters.

 

I heard many women say: if men gave birth mankind would be extinct. Meaning: no man is ever able to endure that much pain and effort of giving birth

 

100% agree with this!

 

Old but true.

 

Most of this seems to boil down to A woman's right to make her own choices regarding her body.

Anyone ever consider the man's rights?

I mean isn't that cluster of cells just as much his as it is hers? Yet bottom line he has no say at all. Seems a little one sided to me.

Had a GF once... She went away on a "girls weekend"... Found out about a month after her return that was not the primary reason for the trip... She had an abortion.... Now, based on our situations at the time... She a moderately heavy crank user and myself barely able to pay my own bills much less properly able to take care of a child.... Her decision was probably the correct one.

The issue I have/had Was I did not have a say.... That cluster of cells/fetus/child... Was just as much mine as hers... Yet I didn't get even a chance to voice my thoughts... I'm sure my story is not unique...

The left will say so what... It's her choice... Ok... If that's the case... Why does a man have to pay child support for a child he may not want anything to do with? I got a feeling that if that were to change the number of "accidental" pregnancies would diminish greatly. Just a theory.. looking at the reverse.. he wants the kid she doesn't.... He's still shit outta luck... Her body her choice... Right?

You Fem-nazi's want equal rights.... You claim it does not exist... Fine, fair across the board... I will tell you right now... You ain't gonna like the outcome....

This issue can not be legislated... No matter what laws are passed in certain states... The medical procedure known as "Dilation and curettage (D&C)" will still remain legal in some states... Wisely, Congress has stayed pretty much out of this... not passing any national laws... It's a States Rights issue... Each one is free to choose how things will be. Here in Bama... It's was decided one way. I do not agree with all the provision's in the law... However, I do support it... Maybe, just maybe it might make people just a little more careful of what they are doing... Then again most people are fucked in the head dipshits.... So maybe not...