I just got back from the store. While I was there I had a conversation with a arab-american. He ask me why is it that everyone seems to treat the arab community with such racism and hostility. He even said that this is america and we should not be treated this way and it should not be this way. As calmly as possible I proceeded to explain to him that this is america and that is why you are treated the way you have been treated. So if you want to complain about the way you have been treated... Stand in line. If you want to complain, first go talk to Native Americans. This was their country and white folks stole, cheated and killed them for it. Took their land, killed their buffalo and then gave them a patch of land and then told them that the US government still owns it and governs it. Let them tell you all the shit they had to deal with and how they were hated... Here in America. Second, slavery of African Americans, which being one, can be a very sensitive subject. But I endevored on, and explained to him how we were bought and sold to do work and make them a profit, whipped and beaten and even had part of our foot cut off for trying to run away from this shit. Not to mention being lynched and how we are hated to this day. Then go talk to the Mexicans. Hell, the southwest pretty much used to belong to them. If it wasn't for them we wouldn't have California, Texas, Navada, Arizona and New mexico. Look how they have been treated over the years. Working in sweatshops and such and how they are hated and still are. Lastly, have a conversation with some elderly Asian folks and let them tell you how the Chinese, when they worked laying down tracks for the railroad in the west. They could not come out at night and had to live undergound, especially in San Francisco. And lets not forget how the Japanese were relocted during WW2 because the US goverment thought that they might be spies and the treatment they had to endure as well as the hatred . All people of color. I told him that I sympathized with the way he was feeling, but we've been dealing with this for decades even centuries and you been only feeling this way since 9/11. I said that I'm no racist but the people who committed the 9/11 devastation look like you. I don't believe all arabs are terrorist or extreme fundalmentalist. But the reason the government may give you any kind of leeway is because the country you come from has oil. So you might want to think about the people that were here before you and some of the things they had to go through before you start complaining about the way you and your people are being treated. It's your turn now. Then I left. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not throwing off on white folks but I felt he needed more of a panoramic view at the history of this country and some of the people in it. I would appriciate any comments or opinion on this subject whether positive or negative.

 

I don't know why anyone would be racist towards anyone. I mean I tell racist jokes cause it's fun to cross the line, but I would never intentionally be racist towards someone of a different race. And if I'm telling a racist joke to someone of the race in the joke I always make sure that they're ok with it.

 

You know.....it's not often I get stuck for a response..
....but I am. Because you said it all.......:???:

 

Sorry.

 

I, like my family believe - you may not believe what we do - that the Native Americans are the only people in this country who deserve any type of respect, nay, repayment (yes, enslaving Africans was bad, yes, putting chinese to work and telling them they couldn't come out and socialize was wrong, yes, putting the japanese into internment camps was bad, but we need to get out of the past, racism will always exist, whether or not it's the whites against blacks or brown people vs. whites). We did, after all take THEIR home from them. We pulled people from their homes in Africa. The United States government gave them plenty of chances of relocating to Africa right after the Civil War. I have no problem with black people. But, I just think that the only people the "white" people owe to anybody is the native americans.

With that being said, I hate racism. I absolutely despise it. But, when people of different nationalities say how badly people treat them, they need to remember that if it were the other way around, there are always going to be people that hate each other. Americans are hated around the world. Be it because we start unjust wars for profit or try to liberate them from a tyrant.

 

Here’s the short form. Back in the early 1970’s Philip Zimbardo a psychology professor at Stanford University conducted an experiment called the Stanford County Jail. The experiment consisted of taking volunteer graduate students and dividing them into two groups; guards and prisoners. The experiment was supposed to last 14 days but was cancelled after only six days because the “guards” were becoming too sadistic and aggressive and the “prisoners” were showing too many signs of personality changes.

Now, even though the experiment lasted less than a week, the controversy it created went on for more than a decade and resulted in new and more stringent guidelines for all experiments that followed.

That being said the Stanford County Jail Experiment also yielded invaluable insights into prejudice and discrimination. First and foremost prejudice, discrimination and violence are not inherent in humans. They are environmentally controlled, exist because they benefit the dominate culture or subculture, and are primarily fear based.

The down side is that if you are a member of the dominate culture it is a false face to claim you are not prejudiced or racist because if you are not out there actively trying to stop it you still benefit from the environment it exists in.

 

What you're saying here doesn't make any sense at all. I mean yes, your history lesson of prejudice in America is pretty much acurate (by the way, I don't really believe that you had this whole conversation). But your conclusion is pretty much that Muslims (did he actually refer to himself as an Arab-American?) living in America should deal with the prejudice that they face because it's more or less their turn. That doesn't make any sense. Just because other groups have faced oppression, it sure doesn't justify opressing anyone else.

Also, don't forget that lots of white ethnic groups have faced prejudice as well. Italians, Polish, Jews, Catholics, pretty much everyone has, at some point, been the focus of prejudice. It sure doesn't justify opressing anyone else.

 

Dont forget the Irish. Signs in Boston: NO IRISH ALLOWED.

From the pretender to the Irish Throne (By blood).

 

Well Caffeine he was actually Chaldean. I always took it for granted that they were Arabs. (I'll ask him the next time I talk to him, if he considers himself to be Arabic). We tend to talk from time to time when I'm in their store, especially if I'm not in a hurry or the store is not that busy. (Where I live, we have one of the largest if not thee largest Arab American communities in America. And they own mostly party stores and gas stations). We have talked before about sports, women, politics, crime and etc. Personally I like the guy. I guess yesterday he had a bad day and talk to me about how he was feeling. Which kinda threw me off balance cause we never had a conversation about that before. When I told him that it was his turn. I said it in a way to imply that now it's your turn to deal with what we all have had to deal with, seeing that he wasn't white. I believe that no race or nationality is better then another. I don't feel superior or inferior to anyone. I recognize that we all have different attributes, skills and levels of aptitudes and I judge someone according to their personality, attitude, humor, knowledge and intelligence. Frankly being black, there are black folks that I don't like or deal with. I believe and know that any decision you make about people should not be based on race, creed, sex, cast or color. Also, I recognize that all races have suffered some indignity and injustice at some point in time, in this case I recognize the people of color first.

 

OK..I'm gonna jump in here with my 2 cents...

First...The Native Americans enslaved their own kind. Us white folks weren't the first to do it.
Yeah, it's bad enough we took everything else, but we were not the first slave owners.

Africans had been enslaved in the Caribeean for decades before the white man brought them to this country. No, it still isn't right, but then again, we weren't the first.

The Chinese also did the same thing. As did many other asian countries several hundred years ago.

And don't even get started on the Middle East and North Africa. They were some of the most sadistic people of their times. They too enslaved their own people as well as those who they conquered in mass land grabs.
I firmly believe that is why there will never be peace. That area has lived too long under the iron fist of oppression and when 1 sadistic ruler is killed, there are 100 more lined up to take his place.

Regardless of race or sex, "Absolute power corrupts absolutely"

jeeploverx

 

I agree that this whole phenomenon stems in part from the dominance of one group of people. But also at the root is a tribalism that seems to be inherent in human beings. We tend not to see ourselves as citizens of the world, but as members of our tight little group. Add to that the fact that most religions teach that all other religions are wrong, and you have a prescription for hatred.

I think we should just fuck each other until all of our descendents are the same color, and THEN, perhaps, we'll have less to fight about.

 

By the way, I think hatred toward Arabs/Muslims has reached alarming proportions in the U.S., and is being fed by both the government and the media. Even here on this forum, some people have implied that all Muslims adhere to a gutter religion that we should be trying to eradicate.

Now we have a man elected to Congress who wants to take his oath of office on the Koran rather than the Bible, and some people are frothing at the mouth over it. People, get OVER it! This country was founded on the principle of religious FREEDOM!!

 

I can't agree that tribalism is inherent in human beings. I believe it's something we are indoctrinated into, often from birth. I do believe, however, that religions are a major drawback in our ability to understand there is only one race, the human race. I whole-heartedly agree though that the solution promoted by Kimiko and the fictitious Sen. Bulworth is for everyone to just start fucking everyone. That would not only help all race relations it would also put everyone in a lot better mood.:-D

 

*giggling* I'm doing MY part! I've got two kids, one of whom looks vaguely Japanese, the other looks vaguely Norwegian.

You may be right about indoctrination. If you're born to white Christian parents, your chances of becoming a Buddhist are pretty slim. But I think it may be a natural tendency as well, and may even have had some evolutionary value. But in this day and age, I think it's very destructive. Your average American rightly laments the loss of 3,000 American soldiers, but is stonily indifferent to the loss of over 100,000 innocent Iraqi civilians.

 

I am appalled everyday with the loss of life in Iraq on both sides. I, myself, do not feel any hatred towards the Arab people, but I know a lot of people that fear them more then hate them. That is all fall-out from 9/11 and the London bombings. To take human life for no particular reason is something I can't understand nor condone. As Far as the senator-elect, who cares whether he takes his oath of office on a Koran or Bible, they are both books of God.

 

'

Hahahahaha. The Native Americans enslaved their own kinds? Dude, they had different cultures. Cherokee indians are in no way related to Choctaw indians, except that they were put onto wagons and shipped to Oklahoma. They are two completely different cultures. They enslaved each other from wars, much like Europeans or, namely Vikings did to Britons, French and Italian people. In my learnings, Norwegians are no where near the same culture as the French or Italians. In fact, if you tell a German that he's a Frenchman, he'll get pissed off. Or the other way around. It's the same with Cherokee, Choctaw, Kickapoo, whoever.

And, no. We can blame slave owning on the ARAB world. They weren't called Arabs but they were from the same region. Fertile Crescent, anybody? The Persians conquered and enslaved. We weren't the first people to enslave others by a long shot.

Same with Africans and Asians. They are not the same cultures. Just because they're the same color, they're the same people? Hardly. I hardly consider myself a German because I have white skin. I don't see why people call themselves by their ancestry first. If you're a citizen of the United States, YOU are American, you are no longer a Chinese citizen, unless, you have a double citizenship. That's gonna rile some up

 

I understand that. I believe in a sort've way that's when God, Allah, Buddha, Sheba, Odin, whoever will come back to Earth and destroy the evil and exalt the good.

 

Well, my point was/is that we all have or will have to (to some degree) suffer, racism, indignity and injustice and that if you want to complain that you feel that you are being singled out as a people. You need to stop and think about those that came before you and what they went through before you start complaining. I don't think, in this case, no one owe anybody anything, except common courtesy (which is not so common) and individual respect and to treat everyone the same way we want to be treated. We can all get along with each other only if we give ourselves as well as others a chance to. I wonder why we make things so difficult when they're really quite simple.

 

Yea i can't agree with the premise of your argument. Just because something exists doesn't mean its right. Racism is bad regardless of where its at. Whether its towards arabs or blacks, whites, browns, it's bad. And all that stuff happened in the PAST. Aren't we suppose to learn from the past? The whole premise of your argument make no sense to me. Are you justifying it? Are you saying he shouldn't complain? He should sit there and take it until america hates a new group? Anybody who feels opressed, been subjected to racism, classism, prejudice, should stand up and fight for equality in my opinion. I'm not arab but often get confused with being arab because i wear a turban so i'm subjected to a lot of the treatment your friend gets, yet i should just accept it? People make so many assumptions about a fellow human being based on his or her looks.

As far as the whole tribe thing, i think it goes back to the nature vs. nurture thing. I do believe that people will inherrently form groups. Most animals do right? Did schools of fish learn to do it? How is it that lions set the guidelines?

I also agree with whoever said that the majority will be racist towards the minority. Thats why white peoples view and minorities view on issues of race are so vastly different. White people can't understand a minorities point of view because they don't experience the things we do. I think any majority group will be "racist" without even realizing it. A majority of my friends are white and i would never consider them racist, obvoiusly. But the way they were brought up in this society, they have a few racist tendencies. Like one i notice the most is that whtie people think they are more american than minorities. Me and one of my friends actualy had a lengthy conversation about it and at first she was like no i dont think that but by the end of it, she realized thats what she was implying.

This is such a big topic i could go on for days but i'll keep it short. But one thing i do like to do is when people ask me, "what are you?" I always say american. Then they're like, no, like you know, where are you from. I always say umm, what do you mean? I'm from fresno community hospital? I'm "from" fresno? What do you mean? I dunno, i know what they mean and i know they don't mean any harm but for some reason i have to do that.