Two questions:

1. What do you think will happen next now there is some form of ceasefire?
2.. What do you think should happen now there is some form of ceasefire?

Unfortunately the answers may not be the same.

 

1. What will happen? Hamas will regroup and begin rebuilding their power base, all the time feeding off the new hatred that the Israelis have been so kind in giving to them, and grow more powerful than before. Then, they will start attacking again with renewed vigor.
2. I honestly don't know what SHOULD happen now, I think Israel really fucked up on this one. It is going to very hard for there to be any talks at meaningful peace for a while because of this latest engagement.

 

ok

ok well first of all Hamas said they would not agree to a ceasefire untill israel pulled out of Gaza. The reason israel was in gaza was because of the countless number of rockets hamas was firing into Israel before this whole thing started. yes Israel did come in with full force but think about this, If a group of terrorists started firing rockets from mexico into the US we would have done the same thing with mexico. Israel is also using precision guided rockets at targets where hamas is hiding such as the islamic university. Hamas, like most terrorist groups today hides among civilians which is why there is collateral damage. Hamas doesnt care about the people of gaza they only want to destroy israel.

 

ok but 1 must ask why are hamas firing these rockets? for a government that was democratically elected their main aim would not be to destroy israel!

 

They were not democratically elected. They ousted the ruling Fatah government by force of arms.

 

Aggressions on both sides have to be stopped unless someone or country goes into Gaza and prevents Hamas from what they were doing there will surely be another mass killing.

The aggressors need to be suppressed.

Arab nations should step in and try to make life for people in Gaza more liveable. When the life of the people in Gaza improves Hamas wouldn't be able to recruit any more fighters and eventually the situation will get better.

 

The Palestinians need to understand that if they keep fighting Israel, they will continue to be killed in large numbers.

 

1. What do you think will happen next now there is some form of ceasefire?

the world will realize that noone is willing to pay for rebuilding of the gaza strip while it remains under control of Hamas, only to see their values destroyed again in the forseeable future. That will lead the world to eventially understanding that Israel has accomplished all its aims for the war: they've made sure that Hamas cannot sustain their government.

2.. What do you think should happen now there is some form of ceasefire?

I hope people will realize what kind of threat to Isreali national security the missile attacks have been. Because of 9/11 america goes to 2 wars. It's scary to think what they would do if missiles were launched at american soil every single week. In the media Isreal has gotten a lot of negative publicity, in a situation where gaza has taken on the role of the innocent victim. yes, civillian death is horrendous and unforgivable, but letting terroristic anti-semitism continue without reproach would be at least a similar breach of human rights.

I hope isreal's position is given more legitimacy and fair coverage, as quite honestly, you cannot negotiate with fundamentalists about the holy land, such as compromise in the crusades was impossible.

 

You saved me a lot of typing Patron because I agree with just about everything you've said here. Especially the part about Hamas coming out of this stronger and Israel really fucking up. There's been a huge shift in public opinion over this last blood bath and I think its really going to cost Israel.

Now here's what I think SHOULD happen. I think the Obama Administration should open talks with both Israel and the Palestinians. I think Obama should commit some funds to Palestine to help rebuild Gaza and supply humanitarian aid. I think Obama should make it clear to Israel that any future aid depends on peaceful settlement and a two state solution.

Then if Hamas continues to attack Israel the international community should step in and end Hamas attacks and Hamas if they have to.

Bullshit. If you'd read any of the other there four threads we've already had on this topic you'd know that while Hamas may have fired a lot of rockets prior to the six month cease fire the ended just prior to Israel's attack you'd know that it was Israel and not Hamas that broke that cease fire and then Hamas started firing rockets again after Israel started bombing.

And the idea that if some terrorists fired some rockets from Mexico into the US that we would respond by killing over 1,000 people half of them innocent women and children for it is patently ridiculous.

Hamas was not only democratically elected to a majority in Parliament it was the first fair and free elections ever held by the Palestinian people and it was documented to be such by international election observers.

Wrong. Saudi Arabia has already pledged one billion US dollars to rebuild Gaza and there are more offers pouring in right now from the international community.

Yeah lets do look at the threat these missiles posed. More people die every weekend in Israel from traffic accidents they have died beause of missile attacks.

What's really scary is the fact we went to two wars allegedly over the 9/11 attacks. There was at least a plausible reason to go to war in Afghanistan and remove the Taliban from power. If for no other reason then the US created the vacuum that the Taliban filled. And because Afghanistan actually did harbor Osama Bin Laden and Al Qeada.

There was no logical or honest reason for invading Iraq and I would hope we've learned out lesson.

The is one run on contradiction. You support Israel in one breath and then say civilian death is horredous and unforgivable, and then apparently try to support the unforgivable as a justifiable "reproach." There has got to be a hundred ways to reproach terrorists other than bombs, tanks and what appear to be actual war crimes.

Israel has been given a free ride by most to the world, especially the US and the media for nearly 60 years now. I hope its time for that to end.

 

One of the most sensible things I have seen you post Stumb.

I can assume some reasonable view from you. I would like this too. But it is such a very old battle/war.
Civilians get killed in wars, this is collateral damage, an inescapable fact. Does not Hamas hide their weapons amongst civilian residences/settlements? Gaza?
Or is Israel specifically targetting civilians? This would be terror, and demoralizing.
The allies in WWII did this to Dresden and other cities likely too.

 

Let me answer your question with a few of my own.

How many weapons do you figure were stored in the UN Building, or in the UN and Red Cross convoys that were hit by the Israeli's?

Do you need to use White Phosphorous tank and artillery shells to knock out buildings or fighters with small arms?

Isn't it against international law and considered a war crime to use White Phosphorous shells in populated areas?

I dunno, do you think Israel might have done it on purpose?

 

Ok, now the last one. Israel has been guilty of some `war crimes'. I remember another thread(you have seen a lot more on the forum, no doubt on this subject).

I think since the `good guys' (Canadians slit the throats of some Germans in WWII during the D-Day campaign, as did the other allies; the ourpose: not to `slow the advance'.)
I can become easy for me(all of us) to become morally indignant.
It has, and will be, the view that ALL sides commit attrocities during war.
This certainly does not make it right.

Yes, I believe that there is credible evidence that Israel would do such things.
It comes down to the nature of man. The "Geneva Conventions" should be rewritten, in terms of specifics, as relates to what are "attrocities" and what is "abuse" and what is "torture", as well as `sanctioned weapons'.
Thank you for making me think.

 

I don't know which drugs you're taking, but down here in the real world they took over Gaza by force of arms.

 

the reaction is nothing similar to rebuilding Iraq, and nowhere near enough money has been raised by Gaza.

America went to war on Iraq over a maximum of 5000 lives lost on 9/11. According to http://www.iraqbodycount.org/ there are more than 90 000 documented civillian deaths from violence since the 2003 invasion. If you look at the graphs for 2003, you will see that the american forces were responsible for more than 2000 civillian deaths during the invasion.

What is scary about the war in afghanistan, is the failure to see the effects on the drug industry in the country that the taliban were removed. No effective measures have been put in place to limit the illegal activity, that the taliban were effectively repressing. If a nation goes to war, they'd damn well better know the situation enough to foresee something as important as that. The international drug market has prospered after the americans went in.

Then what should be done? If you were in Israel, what would you require for your national safety?



An average of 3 missile attacks a day doesn't seem to me as being at all comparable to driving a car.

The US has had that identical privalige since the Marshall plan after WW2. The documentation of this war in gaza though, has been biased. What way things are biased is irrelevant, we should be able to expect more from international media.

The media has also been abused, and civillian tragedy has been manipulated and exadurated: http://confederateyankee.mu.nu/archives/280821.php that does however not excuse the lives taken.

 

There was no logical or honest reason for invading Iraq and I would hope we've learned out lesson.

 

That is a pretty stupid statement... someone had a reason, it might be bigger than we can understand, everything happens for a reason... everything

 

1. they re-group and start over !
2. re-group and start over !

How many century's has the fighting been going on over there,
when the babies are born over there, from birth they are taught to hate the other side, you cant change their minds, the hate teachings have to stop, and they wont, it's a catch22...
it breaks my heart that war has to be so bloody...
in the future everyone will have a computer and you fight your battles there when you win you get their valuables.

oh shit I'm day dreaming again

 

just nuke the gaza strip,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,:satisfied:

 

As we are well aware, cease fires have no worked at all. Personally I beleive the rest of the world should stand back and let them go at it. The way they feel about one another they will eventually wipe each other off the face of the earth, then we can change the name and create a theme park.

 

One more thread to discuss how the US fucked up in the Middle East. How about starting a thread to discuss the real issues in the Middle East. You know the issue of ethnic hatred, the issue of human rights, the issue of gross gender discrimination.

When a country the size of Israel prospers in a sea of sand and hostile neighbors, why isn't the issue about why the Arabs have not done the same? Anyone can claim that it is the aid that the US has given Israel, but that doesn't buy success. Why don't we question why the Arab states that have received as much aid or more, from the West and the Eurasians, than Israel hasn't developed better conditions for their brethren?

Who got the $ trillions of dollars paid to Arab states over the last twenty years for crude oil?? What was (is) it used for?

And last, why won't the Arab countries unilaterally declare that Israel is a sovereign state and condemn those seeking to destroy it?