Ah, now you're getting the hang of it.....

......laugh.....I nearly did...:-D

 

MM - Let me make this absolutely clear: I do not believe (nor condemn) all Americans as IRA sympathisers, nor do I believe that the attacks on the WTC (and others) were in any way deserved or justified.

My point is that time and time again 'Washington' found it politically expedient to ignore the funding of Irish Republican terrorism, but as soon as America herself is the victim the rest of the world is immediately conscripted into the so-called 'war on terrorism'.

Absolutely, I agree that dialogue is, ultimately, the only answer but the US Presidents you cite could have had a far more decisive impact on the situation in Ireland had they banned NORAID.

As for the Black & Tans and Internment: two more reasons for the English to be ashamed of their behaviour in Eire.

And I am.

 

A nice reasoned response, I think were all on the same page now. See RP he's not an arsehole, we just needed to give him space to make his point. So Wahington ignored it. So did the EEC, Lybia and BTW many UK politicians. I remember to my eternal scouse shame how the extreme left of the labour party welcomed and glorified IRA tourists.

 

Ok LJ..... all joking aside now....you've made some valid points, and nobody would disagree that this seems to be a huge hypocrisy, but let's 'cut to the chase' as they say......what do you want?...what do you want to see happen to satisfy your outrage?

We could beat our gums to make our various points on this topic all night, but what do you see as a resolution to this?

 

I think it is a moot point. The funding has stopped the IRA has disbanded. OK the murkins made some mistakes, not like the Brits ever did.

 

Contrition? Acknowledgement? A guilty plea?

Realistically? I don't for one minute imagine that what I have written will make any difference to anyone or anything.

But at least by entering into a dialogue (RP excepted) we can, in our own small way, set an example.

That's what fora are for after all...

 

Sorry to be a pedant on a point of history by internment was an offence by the UK on the UK it was practiced in Ulster.

 

Amen to that.... but if the US government ever stood up, hands on hearts and with open contrition for all the chicanery, subversion, murder and mayhem that they have candidly condoned in the last half-century..........wouldn't the UK have to do the same......

......probably even more so!

 

Sorry that I'm diving in to this one late.

Let me see if I understand the arguments here:

Lucky Jim, you're saying that many in the USA, including a whole slew of presidents and govenrments, were either involved or complicit by turning a blind eye to the fund raising for the IRA in their fight to get the British out of Ireland.

Because of this the Americans should understand that others might feel like supporting Al Quaeda in it's "Fight against the West" or whatever it styles itself as, and we should see this as some kind of poetic justice?

Whilst I can sort of see some logic to the statement you could just as easily draw the parallels to the funding of the Taliban by the US, or the mess Reagan made in central america, or the support for various unsavoury regimes in the pacific rim and south-east Asia because they'd fight communism.

I could go on but I think your point, whilst possibly carrying some justification, doesn't really move the argument on anywhere. So it may be true. Where do we go from here?

 

You are so right and how soon we forget, or have our minds directed away..

 

Just to respond to your point here. There is no proof that politicians, actors, actresses have funded Irish Republician terrorism. However, they have funded an Irish policitical party by the name of Sein Fein. Which is SUPPOSEDLY linked to the IRA.

Now, us Irish know that Sein Fein repesent the IRA on a policital level. I must stress that as of now absolutely nothing has been proven that the Sein Fein policital party have been involved with IRA drugs, gun running, funding for soldiers etc.

I also think that your point on St. Patricks Day is a little harsh. In the US, there is an unbelievable amount of Irish decent there. St. Patricks Day is to celebrate our patron saint. It's got nothing to do with Kill-A-Brit or any other stuff. It's celebrated massively all over the world and I will have the pleasure of going to NYC next March to celebrate it there for the first time.

 

The real problem in this debate is neither support, nor complacency concerning funding of the IRA. It’s simple ignorance. Few Americans were aware of the struggles and/or terrorism involved in Northern Ireland. And even less aware of who the combatants were or why. One example I can think was during the Viet Nam conflict there was a poster and button with a picture of Richard Nixon that read: Support Nixon. He kept our boys out of Northern Ireland. Nobody I knew, including me, had the faintest idea what it meant. At least this thread helped educate me.

But what I want to know now, is it still OK for my wife’s aunt to continue to wear her Juanita O’Gonzalos name tag once a year.

 

I wonder how many of the contributer to Noraid, whether they understood the violence or the sectarianism fully, would still have dipped theri hands in their pockets had they realised tht the IRA was set up as a Socialist Revolutionary movement, and was, initially at least, looking to the East for support, rather than the West.

 

Who put money in whose pot.

I think you folks are great!!! At first this thread was on fire, from quick tempers, then as understanding began to filter in, it all smoothed out...


A very good point! I have heard (not confirmed facts) that the government gave money and guns to the cause..(Irish) Why I will never know.

A hostile reply was like it was totally all of us Americans that were terroist. By no means that could be true.. Just like it was not all of the muslins that attacked us on 9-11. Just a small group of Saudi's. It is unfortunate that a few hot heads can make a war that kills hundreds of thousands..

Bush tried to have Chevz overthrown, but it was not the American people, and despite that Chevz gave oil to the people of NY when the cold hit a couple of years ago... Long live Citgo. Life goes on..

 

TR you are a moron...oil is a fungible commidity...Chavez gave nothing to the US or New York in particular with regard to his (Chavez) "giving oil" to New York. Chavez sold a fungible commidity on the open market to whom ever would buy that commidity....I sincerely doubt that you can show that Hugo Chavez sold oil or any other commidity directly to the state of New York??? Thoughts?

 

I see lucky jims point 100% =] thats all i have to add lol

 

You're an asshole, like him. That's what I know.

 

Again, Wiltallica, another sharp and inciteful contribution to the debate. You've excelled yourself this time.

(in stage whisper to the rest of the forum crowd "Don't get into it with Wilt. It's hard to fight a battle of wits with someone that's not armed.")

 

Through his country's company Citgo they gave fuel oil to the poor or low income familys, in the state of NY, NJ, and I think Mass. This was a story in most all of the big papers in the north east even with pictures of Citgo delivery trucks pumping fuel oil into the peoples storage tanks..

I write fast at times and may have mis-spoke in that it was given to the state.. it was given to the needy homes... Please correct me if you still feel this is incorrect.. I am not sure what "commidity" is. I do not find in my rather old dictionary.

After Katrina, and with the claimed gasoline shortage, Citgo bought in tankers with gasoline to ofset the claimed shortage..

As I hear from my river boat captain, they could not unload for all the storage tanks were full. (we as the public got the story that we were running out of Gasoline. Thus the high prices)

A moron is not all that bad seeing the alternative..

 

A Meeting Of Minds...

Congratulations: I hope that you and Rock Princess are very happy together!