Yeah El Casanova, don't refute an argument line by line and provide sources to back up what say and expose people like DL for spreading false racist propaganda. DL hates it when that happens.

 

If you don't like bitching Umpire why do you bitch yourself? oh you only like it when Obama is praised here? gotcha. Go find some greenpeace or pro abortion rally......God forbid we should have a President who cares about this nation? God forbid we should have a House of Representatives and a Senate that represents what Americans want? God forbid we should have an honest and open government that actually serves the people instead of serving themselves through us. If anyone in the United States actually believes your healthcare just improved or the government just saved us all from unsustainability you are ignorant, quite possibly more than I thought. This whole bill will go down as the sleaziest power grab in American political history that personally I believe will not survive the courts or compliance from real Americans who see this for what it is.....trash. thank you

 

Actually we do have not only a House of Representatives and Senate that works for the will and the health, safety, and well being of the American people. We've also got the best and most intelligent President in modern history with the hardest working administration that really really works.

Even your hysterical blindness will fail you soon Deidre dear.

 

Who is screaming the sky is falling? It's obama and the democrats, telling us that people are dying everyday, 40,000 a year, because they don't have health insurance. That's 160,000 people who will die in the next four years since they won't be covered until 2014 but will be paying through the nose on taxes now. Congress haven't read the whole bill, don't even want to know what's in it, and don't care about the costs this crappy bill will bring upon the American people.

Americans have crossed over to Canada to buy drugs because it is cheaper but it's not the same as going there to receive better healthcare. The same with Mexico!

I don't know what poll you are looking at but since last year, more and more people don't like this process and the whole bill itself!

 

"Minimum Coverage Prohibits Abortion" DOES NOT EQUAL "More Coverage Uses Tax Dollars For Abortion"

Sure, in a vacuum, this lone section does not explicitly prohibit abortion public funding from higher-tier elective coverage. The rest of Sec. 222 does: repeatedly and explicitly. The annual appropriations bill does: repeatedly and explicitly.

I'm not going to dive back into the weeds with you to follow your snipe hunt into Sec. 222. We've already discussed it, and you've already conceded the limitations outlined in 222 in previous posts. Here's the Legislative Intent Section-by-Section:

http://energycommerce.house.gov/Press_111/health_care/hr3962_Section_by_Section.pdf

Sec. 222. Essential benefits package defined. Outlines the broad categories of benefits required to be included in the essential benefits package, prohibits any cost‐sharing for preventive benefits (including well child and well baby care), and limits annual out‐of‐pocket spending in the essential benefits package to $5,000 for an individual and $10,000 (indexed to CPI) for a family. Defines the initial essential benefit package as being actuarially equivalent to 70% of the package if there were no cost‐sharing imposed. Requires the Secretary to assess adding counseling for domestic violence as part of the behavioral health or primary care visit. Prohibits abortion services from being made part of essential benefits package. Prohibits federal funds from being used to pay for abortion (except in cases of rape, incest, and to save life of the woman). Only private premium dollars can be used to provide abortion coverage. Where abortion coverage is provided, funds for this purpose must be segregated from other funds, including affordability credits. Includes a report regarding the need and cost of providing oral health care to adults as part of the essential benefits package. In the developing the essential benefit package, the Secretary shall support the need for assessment and counseling for domestic violence as part of the behavioral health assessment or primary care visit.

There's no such thing as the Stupak Amendment. It doesn't exist in the incarnation of the bill that became law. It was the aborted brainchild of a redneck pseudo-Canadian pandering to other ignorant rednecks who'll never vote for him anyways because he's a Democrat. But, I'm sure when quarterly reporting comes out, we'll all see that he raised a lot of money while demagoguing.

2011 is irrelevant - the individual mandate and subsidies don't go into effect until 2014. Regardless, the 2010 Hyde Amendment will prevent 2011 expenditures from funding abortion.

Even if the 2010 Health Care Bill explicitly DEMANDED public funding for abortion, the 2013 Hyde Amendment would preempt it. That's why the Hyde Amendment is an annually-renewed rider to the HHS Appropriations Bill and why 222e4A explicitly defers to appropriations status 6 months prior. The annually renewed Hyde Amendment prevents clever lefties from ninja-ing in public funding for abortion to other legislation.

Sure. McCulloch v Maryland. Except this legislation explicitly cedes federal preemptive authority to the states in regards to prohibitions on public funding concerning abortion. Regardless, as I said in my original reply - this is all a smokescreen. If a future Congress had the political will to override the Hyde Amendment, they'd also have the political will to amend this law to take back federal preemptive authority.

Take solace: until your fantasy Congress deconstructs 30+ years of federal abortion law, Texas Dad still gets to veto his pregnant teenager's reproductive rights.

If the Peruvian Peanut Plague hits Texas in 2018 and HHS needs an emergency appropriation, the Peruvian Peanut Plague HHS Emergency Appropriation Act of 2018 will still follow the rules and guidelines of the HHS Appropriation Act of 2017 - which will include the Hyde Amendment. Sure, in theory, a fantasy Congress in 2018 could override the Hyde Amendment passed in 2017 for an Emergency Appropriations Act in 2018, but monkeys could theoretically fly out of my ass too.

As we discovered earlier, all funding for this legislation is funneled through HHS as per 222e4A. HHS is funded by the annual HHS Appropriations Act, which always includes the Hyde Amendment.

Whatever. Maybe it was a typo. Maybe e was originally d, but a new d was added in the committee amendment process. Maybe Rep. Dingell did it on purpose to bulk up his Manager's Amendment so that he would look busy to cover up the fact that he spends all day spankin' it to XNXX. Who knows?

I challenge you: find a multi-page floor bill that has left committee in the last 40 years that doesn't have a Manager's Amendment.

The law doesn't just cut you a check and say, "Go buy health insurance." You can't spend your affordability credit on abortions or abortion coverage any more than you could spend it on your cell phone bill or your car payment.

The Interior (IHS) Appropriations and the Defense Appropriations (TRICARE) include their own Hyde Amendment every year, just like HHS Appropriations. Regardless, the affordability credit funding is funneled through HHS as per 222e4A, so even if a soldier or an Indian got an affordability credit from this legislation, it would still be subject to the Hyde Amendment in HHS.

 

I understand that you guys are passionate about your diverse opinions and there is no room here for the voice of reason but... stumbler's little speech, quoted above, both amused and frightened me. I'd rather just keep out of it but please stumbler tell me you were just kidding. I'd hate to think that any breathing, thinking, adult living in America today actually believes that. That is unless you are sighting that belief as the ideal and not the practice.

HD

 

Yeah, he's so intelligent that he thinks we have 57 states; said our premiums will drop 3000%. You mean that intelligent guy?

 

Then by all means, try to make an issue of it in November. Knock yourself out. I'm guessing that by then, most people will have figured out that the Democrats have been trying to help ordinary people, while Republicans have been doing their best to maintain a disastrous status quo and protect the insurance industry.

Already Obama has gotten a bounce in the polls, and reform is favored by a majority of those polled.

 

I'll bet you thought George Bush was a certified genius. Am I right?

 

Obama is the biggest mistake this country has made since we were founded, he is on his way OUT! Make no mistake please, the Democrats want you to forget all about this healthcare bill because they are in charge now, they really care about jobs? can't you tell? Insurance companies were never the enemy and now you are forced to deal with Washington and that model will not survive. The Democrats simply will not survive this. The Republicans had plenty of options without a governmental takeover, stupid liberals like we have on this site love the government and all the great things they can do for you, a fools paradise.

 

You should be happy. If we manage to achieve our fool's paradise, there'll be a place in it for you.

 

Kimiko, how are the democrats helping ordinary citizens out? Is it by mandating everyone to buy health insurance whether we want it or not, by spending trillions of dollars so the next generation will never get out of this debt, or taxing the rich, poor and middle-class to cover only 95% of the people? Republicans never said they want to maintain the status quo; everyone agrees it needs reform. And yes, by November, the people will see the true face of democrats; taxing people for four years without seeing any kind of service.

 

geez that statement went right over your head. Keep preaching your Obamaish dogma on here Kimiko, it keeps me smiling. You most likely will go down with the rest of them because your extreme love of government control, taxes, fraud and abortion is definitely a view in the minority.

 

Never said anything about Bush. I don't know why you would want to bring him up when he has left office for over a year now.

 

I do, absolutely. I may not agree with aspects of specific legislation, but I firmly support and commend my President and my Congress.

 

She has no better defense than to blame past Presidents for the current one being a total disgrace.

 

Unfortunately, that will go on until he's out of office; blame Bush for everything but take credit for the success in Iraq even though they were against the surge.

 

And I can understand why you would want everyone to forget he ever existed. I know exactly where you're coming from.

 

I rest my case.

 

You probably weren't around when Medicare passed. Or when the Civil Rights Act was passed. Or when Social Security was enacted. I know I wasn't. But conservatives like you said the very same things then. You're always opposed to anything that helps ordinary people. Then, when these programs are forced through over your dead bodies, they become extremely popular, and you find yourselves having to give them your grudging support.