Foe you're talking about a country that already rode down on veteran protesters and rolled tanks down the streets of Philadelphia to stop a riot. The United States Government has never had any problem restoring order if necessary and the US Military has never hesitated to respond with deadly force if called upon to do so.

You know preserving this nation is more than just words on paper and exactly what everyone who ever died for this country died for.

 

To say the least, there are a few folks that are always wanting to take the initiative to speak for all folks. There wont be any type of armed revolution against our federal government by the simple majority of our society, but I wont speak for those that are in the lunatic fringe. Voting booths settle these sort of problems.

 

Oh, I know. I also know that for a lot of the current crop of military, they consider that piece of paper and those words to be more important than the various elected suits. Granted, Washington DC is also exempt from Posse Comitatus (making it one of the few places you can actually legally use the armed forces inside the country for combat purposes, outside of repelling an invasion). There's also the not entirely minor fact that they were riding against fellow veterans and soldiers, not unarmed civilians.

You'd have to link me to the story about Philly and tanks, though. I'd be interested to see what the situation was, what unit was called in, and who they were called in against. If it was a National Guard unit it was legit (though should have been under Governor's command, not Federal) if it was an Army unit then it sounds like it was an illegal call out.

 

This is my philosophy as well. There sure was lots of things that horrified and disgusted me during the Bush years but I never once thought of anything except hoping to vote him and the Republicans out of office some day.

Damn Foe, I definitely remember reading about the US Military rolling tanks in some city but I have to admit I've been searching all over the net for some mention of it and have come up empty. And now I'm no even sure what book I might have read that in.

But I better retract that one for now at least because I can't seem to find a reference for it.

 

Stumbler, I think you may be referring to the Bonus Army during the Hoover Administration...but that was Washington, D.C.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonus_Army

 

That was the first action we were discussing. The US military is prohibited from operating inside the US borders according to the law of Posse Comitatus. The only time they are legally allowed to be deployed is in Washington, because it is considered Federal territory. Otherwise only the National Guard can be deployed, and they get deployed under state, not federal authority. There are a few loopholes for disasters and the like, but what it boils down to is that it is illegal and unconstitutional to order US military personnel to attack US citizens inside the US border.

If those tanks belonged to the Army, and not the National Guard, then their deployment in Philly was illegal. The problem becomes that the National Guard and many urban police also stock tanks and armored vehicles, which ignorant newsies automatically deem a "tank" the same way its always a "samurai sword" whether it was actually owned by a samurai or not, and may be a katana, wakizashi, or any other bladed weapon of Asian origin.

 

Or a scimitar, for that matter.

I have it in my mind that federal troops were used by Lincoln to quell the New York City draft riots in 1863. That would seem inconsistent with your reading of the law.

 

Until the proletariat are educated, they will never rise up in rebellion. And until they rise up in rebellion, they will never be educated. - George Orwell.

A revolution will not happen here unless or until the American Military refuses a government order to kill American Citizens. Remember Kent State; Waco, Texas; The Pine Ridge Indian Reservation; Ruby Ridge. Each case was an example of the American Government killing American people. Until those who's job it is to kill fellow Americans refuse to continue doing it, the Government will win every time.


​

 

"God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion.
The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is
wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts
they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions,
it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. ...
And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not
warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of
resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as
to the facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost
in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from
time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
It is its natural manure."
- Thomas Jefferson

 

The troops sent in to quell the riots, according to Wikipedia, were 152nd NY Volunteers, the 26th Michigan Volunteers, 30th Indian Volunteers, and the 7th Regiment of the NY state Militia. They, at least, had been sent up after Gettysburg. The Governor at the time sent in the 74th and 65th Militia regiments, as well as the 20th Volunteer Artillery. With the exception of the Michigan Volunteers and the Indian Volunteers they were all NY state troops that had been sent into Federal service. (The Michigan and Indian unit were also both mustered in-state, rather than being federally created troops.) Martial Law had also been declared, due to the war time circumstances.

On top of that, the request for Federal troops had been made the Mayor of New York city, looking for reinforcements. They weren't ordered in by Lincoln until after the request had been made.

 

Kent State Massacre - Ohio National Guard
Ruby Ridge - FBI* and Federal Marshal Service
Waco - FBI and Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms
Pine Ridge - between AIM and the FBI (again) and National Guard.

So.... the Army hasn't actually done any of those. Since its which way the Army hops that would determine any revolution, those are null points.

*There's a reason a lot of people think the FBI's main principle is, "Ready, Fire, Aim!"

 

Nevertheless.....


What you SHOULD have argued was that the Posse Comitatus Act wasn't passed until later, in 1878.

*stamp* FAIL!

 

Nah; the troops that were used and the way they were used still didn't violate Posse, even if it hadn't been passed yet. For that you would have needed a standing army ordered in by Lincoln without local request, preferably in a time of peace.

You can't suddenly break a law you didn't break in the first place just because it was passed after you didn't break it.

 

I like how you liberals are able to do the thinking for your own kind, yet a half of a dozen liberals still wont make a half of a bag of shit.

 

It's better than not thinking at all.

 

You're correct, but the liberal thinking is just so wrong, and create a thinking for all,instead of all doing the thinking

 

Fuck Foe, I finally found it but instead of Philadelphia it was the 1967 Detroit Riots.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967_Detroit_riot

And actually Foe Federal Troops have occupied Detroit two other times. But the only other reference I can find is The Detroit Race Riot of 1943, but strangely though I can't seem to find out what the troops actually did.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detroit_Race_Riot_(1943)

But obviously there is no real problem with sending in Federal Troops (as in regular army) to restore domestic order. President Johnson even used the Insurrection Act of 1807, when he sent troops into Detroit.

Of maybe that should be Detriot.

 

Yeah, if it was Detriot that explains why I couldn't find anything on Philly.

From wikipedia:

Again, its a case of "bottom up" orders. Its ok if a Governor asks for Federal reinforcements; its another thing for the President to call up the Joint Chiefs and ask them to have the 101st go in and pick a fight.

Aaaaand of course, once again we find that the Army is praised for handling itself responsibly, while it was the cops and National Guard unit that were running around firing on people and abusing them.

 

Also, the unit sent in by Johnson was the 82nd Airborne, an infantry unit. The tanks belonged the the Michigan National Guard.

Checked, same thing with the '43 riots. Federal troops didn't go in until asked for by the Mayor and Governorn.

 

But Foe we're also not talking about an organized rebellion or states seceding either. If we were the federal response would be unilateral and I would guess instantly overwhelming with Marshal law to follow.

And something else I have to point out is what's happening right now in our nation is nothing compared to what we went through during the 1960's where there actually were both cultural and civil revolutions blazing, hundreds of thousands of people calling for revolution, and the whole country seeming to be a tinder box just waiting to explode.

Yet even with incredible changes in our laws, our civil rights, out attitudes and our actual society there was no chance of any kind of real revolution simply because then just as now we are basically just too comfortable.