Well I seems to me I can take one look at the whole bunch of them and see the long history of inbred stupid genes and this proves it.

Its lucky they didn't make an instant mosh pit for them and shove their signs up their asses.

 

And here we might have both a philosophical and national difference of opinion because I believe that ANY restrictions on freedom of speech and/or expression is a step towards tyranny and perhaps fascism.

I actually feel so strongly about that I think I can prove that one of the most famous justifications for limiting free speech has actually resulted in thousands of deaths since it was first coined and protected no one.

That of course was the metaphorical example that free speech should not allow someone to falsely cry fire in a crowded theater because of the panic it would create and people would be injured or killed.

But the problem with that example is its not what anyone screamed that killed the people. The deadly problem is people tend to panic in crowded situations and trample each other to death. It happens all the time and instead of falsely crying fire one could just as easily shout there's Axle Rose at a Guns and Roses concert and create the same deadly panic and stampede.

It should have remained perfectly legal to falsely scream fire in a crowded theater so human beings learn how to react and behave in those situations without killing each other out of their own stupidity.

Its why we have fire drills in schools, but fail to educate the public about how to behave in any other situations. Because if nobody panics, nobody dies in the stampede.

I have also noted the difference between our laws under our constitution and the laws in the UK and with no offense intended instead of becoming more like the UK I would like to back up and actually repeal all our "hate speech" laws. And that could be done and still leave the "hate crimes" laws intact.

People need to be free to say what they feel and believe and since they've got a right to believe it and trying to keep them from saying it helps nothing.

Instead what we need to learn to do is just ignore the ignorant, hateful, brainwashed people of the world and then what they say falls on dead ears and they are rendered powerless and alone.

And I wanted to add that contrary to appearances around this board the ignorant, hateful, frightened racists are a dying breed.

 

Don't know if any of you guys saw Louis Theroux spending time with this family. He's a mild mannered British journalist who gets people to say what other's may not because of his apparent naivety.

This is one such clip. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmIr9P-vkSQ

 

Thanks for this. It gives a different tone and perspective. And that is one brave man I'll tell you that.

 

Stumbler, my point is, that if you incite violence, if you cause someone to become violent towards a group or community in society, then their right to a certain standard of life has been taken away.

I will leave aside your fatuous 'proof' that not being allowed to shout "Fire" in a crowded theatre has caused thousands of deaths. (If it were allowed do you think that would stop people stampeding when faced with such a situation? The cause is lack of training for staff and environmental factors - enclosed building, dark, seats etc etc)

I would far rather someone is legally barred from claiming that all people called Stumbler should be executed than allow them to do that and incite the sheep in society to kill you.

I dont doubt your feelings on the subject Stumbler, but others who disagree feel just as strong.

 

Louis Theroux is cool. He did a series called Weird Weekends where he spent time with some odd people or groups. One I remember was a family whose twin girls sang racist songs. Lamb and Lynx apparently. Very disturbing.

 

Words should never incite a person to violence. Violence is almost always rightfully illegal. Humans need to control their own emotions not try to control what other people say.

Yes I do. If people would have been allowed to falsely scream fire in a crowded theater we humans would have learned our lesson by know and learned to evacuate in an orderly fashion just like many schools and even companies train and drill people.

And the environmental factors should not matter and actually don't because these kinds of panics and stampeded happen out in the open in broad daylight.

And then, just like you folks in the UK, once you begin to outlaw speech there is not only no end to it, there is no fair and objective way to enforce all those laws. So instead of protecting anyone you're actually putting someone at a disadvantage while the dominate culture decides what is and is not allowed to be said.

And disagreement is actually a wonderful thing. But what you're really saying is we should limit disagreements and not over crowded theaters but over anything YOU don't like.

I point out again the only way we can have free speech for ourselves is to allow others the same right. And any attempt to censor the opposition also censors us.

I would point out that I believe the hostility, gun and violence laced political rhetoric we have coming mostly from the right contributes to nut cases flying off the handle and killing people.

Even so I have not once advocated any kind of censorship or even regulation of such speech. Instead we need to learn to question our words and possible impacts and decide whether we want to use them or not in the political realm which is supposed to be a civilized way of resolving problems.

And we humans must learn to stop reacting emotionally, especially to things written and said. That's just double D dumb and dangerous. We need to learn to react with reason and logic every time.

 

We are emotional beings Stumbler, you as much as anyone :excited:

 

So the US Supreme Court has ruled that you have the right under the First Amendment to protest military funerals... I invite you to start your protest in my front yard and we can see if your first amendment is better than my Second Amendment...

 

+1 million

 

It would be such a shame to have you and all your assets locked away from us Circe. I'd rather see you flash your tits at them. I bet that would kill them.

I know I have trouble breathing every time I see them and I'm supposed to used to seeing tits.

 

nah i wouldn't actually go and shoot some motherfucker to make a point at how stupid they are lol.
but that saying did make me chuckle!

 

I know exactly how you feel and I often think along those lines myself but actually what we need to do is simply ignore them. Without all the publicity I think that whole crowd would have dried up and blown a way a long time ago.

 

I think b/c I'm in a military family it just makes it really hard to ignore.
I mean, our husbands, sons, wives, moms, daughters, brothers go and fight---GIVE THEIR LIVES to protect all of our freedoms, including this one, and THIS is the thanks they get? I really pray karma is swift!

 

and no. as long as they are there, the news will still cover it. it would take every single person ignoring it for them to stop covering it,or better yet boycotts at the news stations that do cover it to stop the publicity... so no it won't go away that quickly.

 

I have difficulty understanding how these people have the money to travel around the country like they do. Now sure, some of them are lawyers, but who would want to be represented in court by one of them? Even if someone agreed with their bizarre theology that person would have to consider that a judge and jury would almost certainly not, and would probably be biased against the lawyer, and consequently the claim.

 

this kind of format gets really sloppy to respond to but I will this time.

 

Its doesn't haven't to go away at all. There is an inescapable asshole per capita ratio and some of them will always be with us searching for something offensive enough to anger us and make us react. And we let them win every time we do

The Phelps and members of Westboro Baptist Church are just like some of our resident members who post racist rants and accusations. And what do we do? Well even though its happened a thousand times we tend to fight with them instead of ignoring them.

See its not what people say that is the problem. Its how we react to it and let them win.

 

Just When You Thought They Could Sink No Lower

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/12/westboro-church-plans-pro_n_834727.html

 

On the Phelps and lawsuits: The Westboro Church is very careful about how they handle their demonstrations. They are always at the minimum required distance for the protest, they never do anything violent, and are more than happy to sue anyone who approaches them violently. As for the Snyder case, which I believe is the one the Supreme's just decided, when it was originally over turned on appeal in the Phelps' favor, the church ordered Snyder to pay their court costs. At that point Bill O'Reilly offered to pay the costs in their place, though I don't know the conclusion of the offer after the Supreme Court decision. Personally, I hope the court made the Phelps pay their own legal bills on this one.

As for the court's decision, I too support them. Free Speech is Free Speech. Any limitation or restrictions on the matter make it is less than so. And in response to an earlier post, this is exactly what the Founding Father had in mind when they designed the First Amendment. To protect society from its idiots first requires that we be able to identify those idiots, and the best way to do that is to let them confess their ignorance in the public eye, as loudly and often as possible.

For those who are interested, the court decision can be read here:
http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/10pdf/09-751.pdf