The U.S. military using aptitude testing is hardly a sterling example. Nevermind that aptitude testing is not a measure on intelligence but a measure of aptitude in a particular and usualy very limited set of specific tasks. You for example would fail miserably at an aptitude test designed to determine your ability to play professional basketball.Would that make you a less intelligent candidate? No...it would make you less capable of performing the task of playing professional basketball.

Having taken the military aptitude tests I can tell you that they measure a wide variety of attributes in an effort to determine a candidates aptitude for such things as communications, language, code, medicine, stratagy, science, math, mechanics and a whole host of other attributes in an effort to determine the individuals strengths and weaknesses. The military discovered a long time ago that just because you are good at language doesnt mean you will make a good artilery officer. And being good at math isnt necessarilily a good indicator of your ability to be a good pilot.

If intelligence were that easy to measure then we would have to conclude that Albert Einstein was pretty dumb since he lacked the intelligence to opperate a simple safety razor given to him as a gift. He stopped using it because he could not figure out how to change the blade...until someone showed him how. Anecdotes may lack the weight of "scientific methodology" however the proof is still in the pudding. The ability to perform well on a test has never translated well into the real world. Thats why doctors are required to perform internships befor they are allowed to practice medicine, pilots are required to serve as second officers befor they are allowed to command thier own aircraft, etc.

 

It is hopeless to argue with you. You are immune to facts and logic. You cannot explain why everywhere in the world and always throughout history blacks have been characterized by stupidity and crime. Nowhere do the majority of them behave and perform as well as whites and Orientals. Never have they ever done so.

You are unembarrassed by the fact that your children do not attend predominately black public schools, and that you rather obviously would not send them to such schools. The hypocrisy of most affluent white liberals on racial matters is flagrant and shameful.

People of your persuasion say one thing in public, but your behavior demonstrates that you know that what I say is true.

Even blacks know that what I say about them is true. Why do they move to white neighborhoods as soon as they can afford to? Why do they want their children to attend integrated schools?

 

Racial IQ Gap Narrows: Blacks gain 4 to 7 points on whites
http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/7620/title/Racial_IQ_Gap_Narrows_Blacks_gain_4_to_7_points_on_whites

 

What is the point of this debate? How will the world change, if it will be proven that black people ( in "average") are intellectually lower than all the rest? Will it make our lives better? Or the lives of the poor, always ostracized black and Hispanic people better?

 

If The Bell Curve is true, we should continue efforts to reduce economic inequality, but those efforts should be made without reference to sex or race. An implication of The Bell Curve is that there is little moral significance to the distribution of wealth and income.

 

That was not a summary of the report, if you want a summary of the report that the BSA from the APA filed, then you should read my post #21, which is verbatim from the report entitled Intelligence: Knowns and Unknowns. That shows the true 7 points of which the BSA's conclusion is based upon.

In your links, there is a number 1 next to the statement that supposedly the APA stated, and I have shown you the exact article of which the number 1 pertains to. You should be much more careful when stating things, and not checking your sources. Now here is the verbatim statement from the article which is used as a source, from the source that you provide which states that the APA denounced The Bell Curve, which now should be evident that the APA did not denounce The Bell Curve.

UCLA psychologist Halford Fairchild, who is leading one of four sessions devoted to the IQ controversy at the annual convention of the American Psychological Association, charged that "the scientific basis of 'The Bell Curve' is fraudulent."

http://articles.sfgate.com/1995-08-...-programs-stanford-psychologist-claude-steele

Now, you can say bullshit or that I am full of shit until your face or fingers turn blue; but that does not change the fact, that you are incorrect in your statement. If anything, you are just showing that you are the one that is "absolutely full of shit", and that I am calling you out on it with proof. Now, it states that a UCLA psychologist, not a member of the APA made the statement, so accept reality and facts, and the APA never denounced The Bell Curve.

As for your next two points. They are both taken out of the report of the APA entitled Intelligence: Knowns and Unknowns, which I have already given as proof in my post #21. But you evidently either want to read what you want out of the paragraph, or you choose to misrepresent what is said. So, let me highlight what is said in the paragraph, and show you how incorrect you are once again. Because evidently, if it is not highlighted, then you do not understand the point that the article is trying to convey. Here is it for you, the first paragraph verbatim from the article entitled Intelligence: Knowns and Unknowns.

In the fall of 1994, the publication of Herrnstein and Murray's book The Bell Curve sparked a new round of debate about the meaning of intelligence test scores and the nature of intelligence. The debate was characterized by strong assertions as well as by strong feelings. Unfortunately, those assertions often revealed serious misunderstandings of what has (and has not) been demonstrated
by scientific research in this field. Although a great deal is now known, the issues remain complex and in many cases still unresolved. Another unfortunate aspect of the debate was that many participants made little eflort to distinguish scientific issues from political ones. Research findings were often assessed not so much on their merits or their scientific standing as on their supposed political implications. In such a climate, individuals who wish to make their own judgments&d it hard to know what to believe.

Now, as you can see, they are not saying any of that about The Bell Curve, but about the debate surrounding The Bell Curve and the participants of these debates. So before you make more incorrect statements and use these statements as proof for your argument; learn that you are just making a statement that says one thing, and make them try to fit your case, which is obviously incorrect. And realize that the statement is about people like you who are debating about The Bell Curve.

As for the second statement you highlighted from the report, I am not going to copy and paste it again. DL showed you that the bell curves for each of the races/ethnicities do overlap. And that is not uncommon, because the points are not that far away from each race when it comes to the IQ scores. The actual difference in points when it comes to the difference races/ethnicities are between 5 to 15 points. Now as far as the comment about individual variance exceeding that of a group variance is a no brainer. When you have tons of single little points plotted from the data, you will have members that would exceed and deteriorate the average or mean; which would be considered to be your outliers. And that population are the ones in the bell curve, which would fall in the third standard deviation of the bell curve, which would fall within the 4.55% of the population. The majority of the population would fall within the first and second standard deviation of the bell curve, which would make up 95.45% of the population. So I am not quite sure what you are trying to make a point about that, when anyone who has taken statistics understands that concept.

 

You miss the point that it was the AFQT that was administered, and not the ASVAB. The ASVAB is definitely an aptitude test, but the AFQT is still recognized as an intelligence test, even by Mensa. And because the AFQT does take into consideration so many different aspects, would you not agree that it is more general that an average intelligence test. And because of that, would it not be a better intelligence test to use to try to attain all of the intellectual abilities of a person?

 

I am assuming by all of the statements that you are making, that you never actually read The Bell Curve. And that you are just spouting out anything that you can find on the internet, and using those things as a basis for your argument. Well, if you had actually read The Bell Curve, you would realize that the authors never stated the reason for the difference between races. They hypothesized possible reasons to explain the differences, but they never stated that there was a certain reason for the differences. So due to The Human Genome Project making such a statement, makes it evident that they themselves never read the book. Because they too would have realized that their were hypotheses as to what caused the differences, but they never stated that genetics was the principle reason, but that it could be a possible reason. Just as they stated that it could also be environment.

 

www.lrainc.com/swtaboo/taboos/apa_01.html

 

2. http://www.indiana.edu/~intell/bellcurve.shtml#kaminabuse

 

I fully agree with you on this as, from my experiences, I have been in personal contact with white people who DO NOT know 1 end of a hand held drilling machine from the other. But I also have had personal contact with blacks who are highly respected construction engineers.

These blacks have been to college and passed numerous exams, then worked their way up in multi-national construction companies until they are in a position of high responsibilty..

I admit that they may not be suited for medicine, but their skill and intelligence level is of a higher standard than the majority of whites in the construction industry that I have had dealings with..

My last 8 years of employment in England was spent as a delivery driver for a company called Speedy-Hire PLC..

http://www.speedyservices.com/

 

Maybe you should inform D.L. of this, because he seems to take every word written in the book as absolute proof of white supremecy even though HE has admitted to having NOT read the book either....

 

http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-bellcurvescience.htm

 

Why is it everytime I see this thread I hear the song "Tomorrow Belongs to me.."

Oh and Distant Lover stop sneaking around my profile..its creepy. I don't come round sniffing your ass so kindly stay away from mine..

 

You seem too full of your importance.

 

I use The Bell Curve as short hand for the entire genre of books and essays that emphasize the importance of genes over effort or environment.

I got into this Bell Curve business almost by accident. Some time ago Kimiko, stumbler and perhaps one or two other posters were talking about how stupid white blue collar workers were to vote Republican. They saw no rationale in it at all.

Because I am a Democrat I agreed that it was unfortunate, but I said white blue collar workers have legitimate concerns about black crime, affirmative action, and busing, and that they feel that the Democratic Party is not addressing those concerns. Well, one thing lead to another, and before that flame war was over I had become known as the XNXX defender of The Bell Curve.

The reason I defend that entire genre is because I think the truth matters, even if it is a truth that I wish was untrue.

This is a scientific controversy. The fact that much of the left tries to make it a moral issue says bad things about the left. Now I agree that the implications of The Bell Curve and similar works are fairly ghastly, but I think it is dangerous to design social policy on false assumptions about human nature and human potential.

 

You have got to be joking..

I simply ask you not to creep round my profile and yet there you are again yet this time posting visitors messages when you have been plainly asked not to..what the fuck is wrong with you. Can you not respect anyones wishes..Apparantly not.

You are far more full of your own self importance than any other single poster here..You have no respect for others opinions or wishes..none whatsoever..

Having read a lot of your posts on this thread noting the arguments and discussions you have chosen to blatantly ignore I can only reach the conclucison that you are very dangerous..your apparant belief in racial superiority is nothing short of horrifying..

Shame on you, if you lived in England you could be charged with incitement of racial hatred and rightly so.

 

Not necessarily. Intellectual abilities are not something that is that easily measured. Some people test very well but fail in practical application while others are exactly the opposite and yet technically, the person who passes the test is considered more intelligent than the person who fails in spite of the fact that the person with the practical abilities will ultimately be more successful. The ASVAB by the way is a test designed to measure a persons educational levels as well as a persons cognitave abilities. Once in the service a series of tests are administered to new recruits to test specific aptitudes for things like code, language, problem solving, etc. These tests were developed through military intelligence in an effort to single out people who were specifically skilled or adept at things like cryptography, mechanics, electronics and languages so they could be funneled into appropriate military careers and trained for these fields rather than being wasted in the infantry. Intelligence testing has been a very clouded subject for a long time simply for the fact that no one has managed to design a test that doesnt ultimately show eventual glaring weaknesses. The tests that were popular when I was a kid have long ago been debunked and thrown out in favor of other tests that were thrown out and replaced by a whole new set of tests and so on.

The biggest question I have is simply this...what defines intelligence? Having seen otherwise brilliant people completely flummoxed by simple problems or caught completely flat footed by a sudden unexpected turn of events that others simply adapt to and overcome. Simply there are "book smarts" and there are "street smarts" and the two are very seldom comparable. Too many geniuses get caught like deer in the headlights in chalenging situations but hand them a slide rule and a math problem and suddenly they are super heros. Is inteligence defined by ones ability to survive and succeed in the phisical world or is it defined by a persons ability to calculate the inside volume of an egg in thier head to fifteen decimal places?

My sister in law has an aunt and uncle who met when they worked on the Gemini space missions. They are both quite literaly rocket scientists...engineers really. One night while visiting they decided that they would order pizza delivered for dinner. The discussion between these two regarding weather to get a large pizza or a medium pizza lasted over a half an hour. If they get a large they might have leftovers that will have to be managed but of they get a medium they may not have enough pizza. At the end of the debate they settled on a large pizza and when it was finished they did in fact have two slices left over. The leftovers were taken to the kitchen where they proceeded to precsely measure the two slices and carefuly cut an appropriately sized and shaped piece of aluminium foil that pefectly covered the two remaining slices but didnt use any extra aluminium foil. My sister in law swears that the characters in Big Bang Theory are at least in part based upon them. These folks now teach aerospace engineering at university but still struggle with issues like how to use a trash can liner. They have hired help for most of the menial tasks around the house in part because it takes them so long to figure things out. But in aerospace engineering most of the people at JPL would struggle to keep up with them.

Are they intelligent? In many respects they are extremely intelligent. In other regards they are helpless. What they do have is the ability to hire people to take up the slack where they fail. Much the way my former employer did. He was a genius at business but so many practical issues in the day to day opperations were so beyond him that he had to figure out how to hire people that could do what he couldnt. The result was more success. But is that a reflection of his intelligence or the intelligence of those around him? Or both?

I am not convinced that intelligence testing has any more value in the long run than as a curiosity or a tool for amusement. MENSA seems to take great pride in claiming thier vast intelligence and yet we still burn fossil fuel and drop bombs on other countries. In many ways it would seem that they have devised a test that demonstrates exactly what they want it to so they can have bragging rights and lord it over those who used to beat them up for thier lunch money on the playground.

As for intelligence testing in private companies...many have abandoned the practise or scaled it back simply because the results werent anything all that useful. It is gradualy falling from favor in companies that started doing it ten or fifteen years ago while other companies are just starting to adopt the practise since they heard about it and finaly decided to try it out. Many companies have found that while the testing weeds out the lowest performing candidates, it does very little to determine the actual performance of those that do end up performing well on the tests. They adopted the testing in an effort to reduce the turnover of new employees due to bad performance but have found that the tests do nothing to indicate what the candidates performance will actualy be. The result was no change in turnover but it did increase the cost of hiring.

 

http://repec.wesleyan.edu/pdf/jjacobsen/2006026_jacobsen.pdf

 

Is The Bell Curve illegal in England?

What about "RACE, EVOLUTION, AND BEHAVIOR: A Life History Perspective?" It is by Professor J. Philippe Rushton, of the University of Western Ontario London, Ontario, Canada

Here are some passages from it.

--------

the hormones that give Blacks an edge at sports makes them restless
in school and prone to crime...

Chapter 2 shows how this racial pattern in crime is found worldwide. INTERPOL Yearbooks show the rate of violent crime (murder, rape, and serious assault) is four times lower in Asian and Pacific Rim countries than in African and Caribbean countries. Whites in the United States and in European countries are intermediate. The 1996 INTERPOL violent crime rates clearly show this pattern: Asian countries, 35 violent crimes per 100,000 people; European countries, 42; and African countries, 149...

In the U.S., Blacks are less than 13% of the population but have 50% of all arrests for assault and murder and 67% of all arrests for robbery. Fifty percent of all crime victims also report their assailants are Black, so the arrest statistics cannot be due to police bias. Blacks make up a large share of those arrested for white-collar crimes. About 33% of persons arrested for fraud, forgery, counterfeiting, and receiving stolen property, and about 25% of those arrested for embezzlement are Black...

The same pattern is found in other countries. In London, England, Blacks make up 13% of the population, but account for 50% of the crime rate. A 1996 government commission in Ontario, Canada, reported that Blacks were five times more likely go to jail than Whites...

Chart 4 is based on INTERPOL Yearbooks and shows that this racial pattern is consistent globally. Rates of murder, rape, and serious assault were four times higher in African and Caribbean countries than in Asian or Pacific Rim countries. European countries were intermediate. The 1993-1996 INTERPOL Yearbooks show the violent crime rate per 100,000 population was 35 for Asians, 42 for Europeans, and 149 for Africans...

The first explorers in East Africa wrote that they were shocked by the nudity, paganism, cannibalism, and poverty of the natives. Some claimed Blacks had the nature "of wild animals... most of them go naked... the child does not know his father, and they eat people."...

European explorers had the same impressions. They wrote that Africans seemed to have a very low intelligence and few words to express complex thoughts.
http://www.charlesdarwinresearch.org/Race_Evolution_Behavior.pdf