Don't be fooled, Stumbler. When the Democrats need it they are just as apt to misuse "God" as the republicans.

Slick Willy (Clinton) dusted off a bible and carried it before the cameras for the "churches'" benifit when he was being impeached.

More than one liberal, Democrat and /or athiest has quoted the Bible's "free will" scripture in defence of abortion or the Bible's " eye for eye, tooth for tooth" to justify a pro- capital punishment position.

I am in no way justifying anyones beliefs, but my own, which you have destorted beyond recognition here with your redicously false accusations.

 

All present governments are secular (derive their power from human beings)The only differance in America's government is it is a democrocy instead of a monarchy

That means the power is given to the masses instead of the elite.( We chose our leaders) Our presedents are chosen by election instead chosen by their predecesor.

If one believes the bible, the only theocracy (government by God )was with the Isrialites until they requested to be self ruled.

God already knows what is right or wrong concerning every abortion. I guess humanity choses to debate it.

 

That is a weak argument, as an atheist every time you use god as a judge I ignore it, and yes we atheists do quote from the bible but we use those quotes in a secular fashion.

There is no way you can claim "An eye for an eye" as a religious as it was superseded by "Turn the other cheek".
They are just quotes and using them does not make one religious, most of the world takes it timeline from the "birth" of Jebus, some of us just call it the common era.

 

First. it was not an argument. it was information.

Second. you obviouly don't know anything about the bible.
"
Third, you need to educate yourself on" forms of government."

if you do( which I seriouly doubt) that doesn't mean that any or all other athiests do.

 

Example please

Sorry, but you are seriouly mistaken on this.

Aparently you and I are the only ones that know this.

As a follower of Christ Jesus I take most of my guidence from the New Testement but there is a lot of valuable guidence/ wisdom to be gotten from all of God's word.
I don't put much faith in what the majority does or says.

 

George Carlin on Religion

 

Most the founders of this nation were Deists who were believers in the Enlightenment and really tired of God and Religion. That's why they wrote it out of the Constitution.

And rationally or not you just keep talking. But what you can't do is back up your mouth with facts.

 

I know enough about the bible, probably a little more than the average US citizen, most of the religious zealots, don't read the bible, they book mark passages and go from there. You again made strong presumptions

Why do I need to educate myself on forms of government, I guess my knowledge on the subject is pretty good for a layman, also I never mentioned government, you may have but I never mentioned it in my post, so pay attention to what you read.

You doubt me when I say I ignore your use of god as a judge, of course I do, I AM AN ATHEIST. When in court I give a civil affirmation, when some says god will judge me I say he won't, I do not let it run my life. Now be pedantic and say that that is not ignoring what you write, but it is ignoring the fact that you think a brimstone bath will do me good.

An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.Mahatma Gandhi, (attributed)
Indian political and spiritual leader (1869 - 1948)A very secular quote from a Hindu.
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So you say that the actions and words of your son of god count for nothing and you can go back to acts of revenge, where does it say that in the bible.

A bold and daring statement when you make assertions on how the other members of this planet think of

Oh I see, you cherry pick the bible for the bits you like and disregard the others, how does that make you a christian?

 

It was not a presumption ,It was an observation by one who does know the bible.

That was a suggestion ,unwanted and therefore unwarrented. I apolgize

Bet your proud of yourself. . . You got enough knowledge of the bible to distort and make an insult
I thought better of you yhan that.

Obviously I expected too much

 

To abort or not to abort

......at the end of the day it's the individuals choice.....We are living in the 20th century.

 

In a world were an individual's freedom and rights are more important than their responcibility. . .

That's not living. . . It is just suviving, mearly existing.

 

Great response and all I wanted to add is that the greatest corruption of the Christian Religion came when they combined the Old and New Testament.

The reason Jesus Christ supposedly came to earth was to free humanity from the vengeful God and all the rules and laws laid down in the old testament. The only thing Christ sad should be observed from the old testament is the Ten Commandments. Everything else is null and void.

But I think Christians found following the teachings of Christ which were love, forgiveness, and tolerance were just way to boring and didn't give them a chance for vengeance and retaliation so they just couldn't let go of the old testament, and the revenge it promised them.

 

Naughty you're in the wrong thread the time travel vs. space travel thread is a few doors down the hall... it's 2011 we are in the 21st century.:excited:

 

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It is a woman's right to choose, plain and simple. I do not want anyone to be able to tell me what to do with my body.

 

Which God are we talking about?

 

Many times in my life have I read something that is slightly askew of the point. Or perhaps something that has missed the point entirely, but is still an honest shot. Few times have I read something of this nature. My friend, you were not simply wrong, you did not simply make a mistake, no, you were spot on. You were simply spot on in the wrong the wrong direction. The truth is in your statement -- it is the exact opposite of your statement.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights

and you wrote?

And they wrote?

they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights

and you wrote?

and they wrote?

by their Creator


You have stated things exactly backwards, and that is exactly what I would expect someone of your nature to do. You were correct about the founders writing a somewhat unique document, but it was unique because it granted rights from god, NOT from human beings. If you knew as much as you claim among all your wild rantings, you would know that they did this because they felt it necessary to put something above the government. They had, after all, just revolted against a government, and had little faith in any government of man alone, including their own.

It is quite baffling as to how a self professed expert could go in the wrong direction on one of the most straightforward points of American history.

I would advise you do not argue on this point, because their is no argument to be had, unless you find it wise to deny that the Declaration of Independence had anything to do with the founding of this country. Simply admit a mistake and move on(large and ironic a mistake it may be).

As for your other rantings which I have skimmed, they are as historically flaccid as this, but you seem quite stuck on them, and I have no real desire to jump headlong into a debate with a foul mouthed historian who is as accurate in his points as a blind marksman shooting a thin ghost.

 

Oh forgive me, off went my head, here we are again -- I simply could not resist.

It seems you are equally wise in U.S. and religious history.

You start off with a real bang, "the greatest corruption of the Christian Religion came when they combined the Old and New Testament."

What a statement to make. The christian religion IS a combination of the old and new testament. The entire faith is based upon Christ fulfilling in the new testament what was written in the old. Your statement is as nonsensical as saying, "The worst corruption that man ever took part in was being a man."

You then go on, of course, you go on. "The reason Jesus Christ supposedly came to earth was to free humanity from the vengeful God and all the rules and laws laid down in the old testament."

Free humanity from a vengeful god? You mean from himself? Again your knowledge knocks me back in fright. Christianity holds that there is one god of three persons, the triune god, thus, that "vengeful god" was...Jesus. Jesus came to fulfill the old testament prophecies, not to destroy the old testament. I think you will find it quite a challenge to fulfill and destroy something at once. Do you simply say things the way wish them to be? I suppose I shall act stunned that someone who does not even have the elementary knowledge of why Christ came to earth thinks it wise to speak on or against christian philosophy. Ok, slightly surprised.

I have often found that it helps to do some honest research on your opponent before stating "facts" about them. Perhaps you disagree.

 

This is all well and good and agreeable. And I'm sure the baby feels the same way about his or her body.