Shootersa all you really do is resort to circular arguments where you end up contradicting yourself and defeating your own arguments and then just go back to what you were saying in the first place and then keep repeating the same arguments you have already contradicted yourself on.

Let's take welding for one example. You have a very limited view of it. Not only are welders still very much in demand welding is constantly changing and actually expanding. The welding programs at our community college graduated certified welders for pipelines and high pressure rig work. As well as welders trained in new technologies like wire welding. Those guys went straight from training to jobs and are still at it. And by the way you don't get a rig welder to come out to the rig for no piddling $185 per hour at least on the rigs I worked on last. They were up to $200 per hour and worth every penny of it.

And its the same with auto mechanics. They graduated certified and not only learned how to work on cars with all their latest technology (which includes computers incidentally) they are also trained in how to keep up with the latest changes which happen faster than any training program can keep up with. So they had to teach them how to train themselves in the future not just work on the cars of today.

Also I don't know of any computer program that is just teaching computer repair and/or maintenance. Computer training is integrated and covers everything from maintenance, IT, systems, software, and again how to keep training yourself because it all changes faster than any one program can keep up with.

But that is just the tip of the ice berg of what community colleges and pubic universities are teaching. Just in our community college some of the areas of concentration are also business, engineering, and especially the medical field. Those skills are in demand right now. Today. Not skills for some far off pipe dream of what the future might hold. Because no one fucking knows.

And with some help from the federal government we could be doing so much more right now today. 6 million jobs are sitting there waiting to be filled right now today. And with a highly concentrated cooperative effort on the part of schools, industry, and the federal government we could be training people with the skills to fill those jobs within months. And for many of them they wouldn't have to be in training programs long enough to get a degree. They could tailor their training programs to nothing but the required skills and crank them out in less than a semester.

But without the emphasis and needed resources our education system and jobs training programs can only move with the limited resources they have now. Which in my state at least is severely limited.

And finally shootersa I can only surmise that where ever you are at they must have the most corrupt and worthless community colleges in the country. Because where I am the community college system is the exact opposite. They respond nearly instantly to the changing times and crank out thousands of quality graduates every semester. Many of which go to work as soon as they walk out the door while others head off to getting a four year degree.

PS You also know you are on shaky outdated ground shootersa when you cite 20 year old examples as what is actually happening today. Times have actually changed a lot in the past 20 years. Perhaps you should join them.

 

Our community colleges were doing very well, training people to work in the movie industry. At any one time, there might be a dozen or more films in production, and the companies had to bring in people from all over the country to meet needs. By the time we had a sizable trained film work force, we discovered the reason the movie companies came to Louisiana was because our Republican Iwannabepresident Governor had bankrupted the state with unsustainable tax credits, in which the tax payers basically paid movie producers to make movies here. When it came time to face facts and change the GOP giveaway program, movie production came to a halt. All those film workers had to go back to being welders, auto mechanics, and PC repair
persons.

 

Bron its not a tax giveaway if the conservatives do it.

But I actually seen that myself. The new film making frontier was in Louisiana. It was the next big thing. Come to Louisianan and make your next Mountain Man film. And the same thing happened in the west but at least they have the mountains, Bayou films not so much. But you can still do it if you get here before the creek dries up.

 

Here's why globalisation is a good idea. I live in a small country at the bottom of the World about as far as it is possible to get. I am a larger bloke, and with a population of something under 5 million, many businesses have failed to offer products to those like me. So what to do? I go the richest and most varied market in the world: The Great Satan. And because my money is as good as anyone's, they're happy to take it. Much of this is clothing. None to date has been made in the US. I have stuff from China, Bangladesh, and Pakistan just for some.

Now I have no idea where the actual textile comes from, but this I know, someone made a living growing, harvesting and spinning it, the factory worker wherever has received a wage for sewing it, the factory owner a profit, the shipping companies the same and the transport workers on ships, trucks, working on the docks all the way to a warehouse somewhere in America. Then I make an order over the internet, and more people are employed getting my shirt to me. At every stage, someone has made part of their living right up to the courier driver dropping it at my door and the business owners a profit. And here's an important consideration, that shirt is damned good quality for what it is, and it is cheaper than shirts I was buying 20 years ago. The dearest part is sometimes the postage. You need to do something about that, your postage rates are scandalous.

Now since your dear-groper-in-chief decided to trash the TPPA, we don't have a free trade agreement with you. But we do have one with China. And I can do the same there - and I do. So I decided I wanted a Fitbit. They cost from around a hundred and fifty kiwi dollars upwards. I got a knock off from China - probably from the same factory - for $20. With free delivery. Being an avid reader, I buy books on various subjects. For entertainment, Kindle is fine, but not for serious reading. New Zealanders are the most prolific readers on the planet, so you'd think we are catered to, but no, books are expensive here, no doubt in part because of the small market size. So I check Amazon, but often the shipping is prohibitive. So off I go to Book Depository in dear old Blighty. Their prices alone are often cheaper than Amazon. And here is their comparative advantage: free shipping.

Comparative Advantage. This is a concept most people know nothing about. All countries and indeed all people have one. You just have to find yours. It is explained clearly here:http://www.econlib.org/library/Topics/Details/comparativeadvantage.html

There is something people need to get through their heads. The old world has gone. Those factory jobs, they're not coming back. Nor is coal or manufacturing. Others can do it better and cheaper. New methods and technology are exploding. The juggernaut of sustainable and clean technology is out of the genie's bottle and there is no putting it back. So get on board or be left behind.

For most people, taking advantage of the opportunities to come will require a commitment to life-long learning. Those who choose a trade will do alright, no plumber, electrician, drain-layer, carpenter etc are coming from the third world to take those jobs.

Your country has made two fucking stupid decisions of late, apart from said dear-groper-in-chief becoming the resident of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. The first was ditching the TPPA. Because the other 12 partners to the Agreement are in the process of moving forward with it. We don't need you, and frankly, much of what people in our nations objected to were provisions your industries had insisted on. So two things happen there, there will be less resistance to it and we increase our collective comparative advantages. Particularly in regard to intellectual property rights and patent periods for medications which in NZ were the hot potatoes.

The second dumb decision: Withdrawing from the Paris Agreement on climate change. Regardless of what some Americans think, the rest of us are getting on with it. So you lose again there. You really need to up your game.

 

I made a good bit of money off of the industry. The Astronaut's Wives had to have a kitchen, living room, and bedroom set for each astronaut, and my store was filled with that stuff. Katrina killed about 10 productions in New Orleans and it took more than three years to recover.

Bobby Jindel was planning on using Louisiana as a tax cut heaven/business prize pony for his Presidential campaign. The only problem was, it didn't work. The increase in business activity did not come close to making up for lost tax revenue. The State government was broke, with no great increase in productivity, just as primary season began. Poor Bobby spent all that time sucking Grover Norquist's cock, for nothing.

 

Now Bron I can give you some shell casings from Star Wars Troopers. And bro, if you can sell them ..I can come up with a few hundred more. But for such a great movie they could have at least picked up their brass.

And with 6 million jobs vacant if film making is one of them you let me know.

OMG Bron give me a fucking break, You people elected the most horn dog and corrupt (an important distinction) politicians in US history. It became sort of a State Pride. Our leaders may be corrupt but at least they ain't stupid. And neither are we.

And then you elected Bobby Jindel and had to send to Wyoming to import a box of rocks to measure his intellect with. And I awoke screaming WHAT HAPPENED TO YOU PEOPLE????

But don't try to tell me it didn't work. Where was Duck Dynasty filmed again? And did you hear the latest? One of them shaved their beards.

 

I don't need a job in the movies, thank you all the same. Also, smile when you talk about Edwin. He used wit and charm to get women into bed. It's a Louisiana characteristic. His on his fourth wife, who is half his age, which is true of most women. Edwin thought cheating on his taxes was a sport. If he had filled out the paper work, the Feds couldn't have touched him. He was one of the most effective governors the state ever had.

Bobby Jindel is actually quite intelligent. His problem was he had a long range plan, and he stuck to it, when he should have punted. He bought into the supply side/tax cut your way to prosperity bullshit and gave it a game try. He really thought he had a shot at the GOP nomination, brown skin and all. He was one of the few to call Trump a fraud, but it was no use. He couldn't present his Louisiana showcase and never got any traction. Jindel was the guy who said, "The GOP has to stop being the party of stupid." That pretty much finished his career. It turned out, stupid was the way to go.

 

Any economic policy benefits some people at the expense of other people. The United States is not "a small country at the bottom of the world about as far as it is possible to get." If it really is true that people living in countries like that - and I did not read your whole post; my patience is limited for long copy and paste jobs - benefit from globalism, that does not mean that most Americans do.

In the the United States globalism means that the elites - AKA the capitalist class - can and does import cheap labor and export good jobs. The fact that they have been doing that on a large scale for a long time is the reason wages are going down while profits are going up.

 

Don't get me wrong I have long been an admirer of Louisiana politicians in general and Edwin Edwards in particular. Any candidate who can get drunk and go down Sorority Row calling out for a date at midnight is a hero of mine. Especially when the press tries to attack him over it and he responds with; "Look the only way I can lose this election would be if I got caught in bed with a dead woman or a live boy."

And while I don't know if it is even remotely accurate one of the scenes that will always be with me from the movie Blaze is when Gov Earl Long launches into a rant about false accusations of him raking in lots of money and he says; "Let me tell you something. Money bores me."

I could go on clear back to King Fish but I am sure you get the picture.

Ok I now stand fully corrected, retract what I said, and apologize to both you and Jindel for making a totally false accusation. I really do not like the guy and that bias clouded my perception. But after reading this I have to admit all you say is true and I really need to give Jindel the credit he is due. And will do so in the future. I needed a reality check on this.

And you also make a very important point. Nothing will end a conservative's political career faster than than daring to tell the truth.

 

One of the problems of being a legend is that few people are content with the legend as it is, and want to embellish it. I've known Edwin for a long time(no great distinction) and he does not drink. If he went looking for a date on sorority row, he did it sober.

I do have one Edwin story which I can attest to be true. I used to work with a guy a GM dealership, named Frank. In Frank's younger years, he had been an assistant coach at Southern University. Every year, Southern and Gambling play a football game in the Super Dome and it's a big deal called the Bayou Classic. Edwin was Governor at the time, so he visited the locker room of each team, where he was introduced to the team and the staff. Fast forward 12 years, or so. It's the birthday of dealership owner and there is a dinner in the back room at Ruth Chris's. The dealer is a prominent businessman and Edwin is in the house. He steps in to shake hands and give birthday wishes. All eyes are on Edwin, as he looks across the table and says, "Hi Frank, It's good to see you again."

The "dead woman or live boy," comment was made in response to a question about his opponent's prospects in the election and the latest poll numbers. There was once a story circulating that Edwin had spent the weekend in a hotel suite with five women. A reporter asked his wife(Elaine #1) about it and she said, "It's not possible. Maybe three women, but never five." It helps to have a sense of humor about these things.

If Earl Long had fallen down and died when he had his first stroke, he would be regarded as one of Louisiana's greatest leaders. His strange behavior in the last years of his life overshadowed his real accomplishments. Earl brought Louisiana into the 20th century, with real infrastructure improvements and education. Few people remember that Earl was the one southern Governor who did not use government resources to resist Federally mandated school desegregation. In his words, "How you gonna fight the Feds? They got the atom bomb."

 

You can still get a good blow job in America.
Just saying....

 

I am getting quite the education here and have to admit many of the anecdotes I have seen and read are really not true at all. And I really appreciate you taking the time to straighten out so many of my misconceptions. It is a great benefit to me when some points out that I am actually believing my own bullshit.

And damn Bron Louisiana politicians it turns out are nowhere near as corrupt as much of the media that covers them. And from talking with you "embellishment" is a very kind way to phrase it. Its more like just plain old bullshit that gets spread around the country.

By the way when I was in the newspaper business one of the guys that worked for me was from Houma and he also pointed out to me that myself and most the country didn't know shit about Louisiana and actually had just a caricature of the state and people. Which I guess is what makes work for people like you never ending.

 

There a couple other points I wanted to hit on this thread.

One is how community colleges can not only respond to changing demands but sometimes also end up holding the bag when corporations bail on them.

We have a trucking company that actually mostly just delivers a product to the railroad. And in that process they also have to constantly repair railroad cars before they can load them. So the trucking company and the railroad got together and decided to create a brand new facility for nothing but repairing railroad cars of all kinds. But the problem was that they not only needed welders those welders would also have to be trained in many other things with the biggest being trained in how to recognize and deal with hazardous materials.

So they turned to our local community college and asked them to create a training program specifically for the skills they needed. And the community college did and they had about 100 people enrolled in the program. Except one morning one of the company's old hands went to work on a railroad car and when he struck his arc blew himself sky high. And the instant reaction from both the trucking company and railroad was to just shut the company they created down before any lawsuits could be filed. So the next day when people showed up for work there was just a closed sign on the door and the people in the welding program were getting trained for jobs that no longer existed. And it was kind of admirable how hard the community college tried to adapt again and managed to place some of their graduates in jobs inside and outside the state. But they couldn't do it for everyone and a lot of people got hurt over the deal.

Then on the opposite front back in 1995 all the drillers and roughnecks I knew were starting to really worry because they were being told the oil and gas industry were in the process of designing new drilling rigs that would be so automated that instead of requiring a 5 or 6 man crew they would be able to drill wells with just a driller and a derrick hand eliminating about 3/5 this of their jobs.

And it came to pass that they were not bullshitting about designing new automated rigs. I happened to be working at the time and watched the cross over. In fact I threw chain on one of the last kelly rigs with tongs and a spinning chain still in existence in the Rocky Mountains. And it was almost hard to recognize the new rigs. They went electric and computerized with top drives that allowed them to drill 90 feet stands instead of just 30 foot joints. They were so automated the derrick hand didn't even have to go up to the board (90 feet in the air) to work pipe. And they even moved hydraulically. They didn't even have to tear down the rig and move it to the next hole. With directional drilling they could have their next hole in some cases as close as 6 feet and the rig would move itself. And they could drill up to about 20 wells on the same pad without every having to actually tear the rig down. And wells that used to take 90 days to drill are now drilled and completed in a week.

So all that became true. But what didn't is that they could automate drilling rigs to the point it would only require two people. And they actually tried. But soon they found out the hard way no matter how much they automated drilling rigs they could not automate all the variables that come with drilling wells. And when they are in danger of losing circulation, blow outs, and/or things break down it still sets five hands scrambling to save their very expensive rigs and/or wells. A driller and his crew might not have as much work to do on a day to day basis as they used to but when things go to hell in a hand basket they still need all five of them to cover all the bases.

And the same thing is true in many other instances. Automation has taken a huge bite out of factory jobs because of robots and other advances. But it has also created new job opportunities for people needed to work on them and keep them running. And we can't stop the loss of a lot of jobs that are being eliminated but we can damn sure get with it and help people get trained for the new jobs if we would just do it.

6 million jobs sitting there there folks for the taking. All we have to do is shift the emphasis on a massive effort to help provided the necessary training.

 

Automation has taken a huge bite out of factory jobs because of robots and other advances. But it has also created new job opportunities for people needed to work on them and keep them running. And we can't stop the loss of a lot of jobs that are being eliminated but we can damn sure get with it and help people get trained for the new jobs if we would just do it.
​

And there you are. The question is, who does the training and who pays for it? The best answer is a combination of the companies and the workers, since they are the ones who benefit most.

Letting Government get very much involved just invites inefficiency, friction, and restrictions that are counter to the mission.

 

The main problem is that automation and computer technology destroy many jobs that most people can learn. They create a few jobs that only people with high IQ's can learn. Any credible, reliable program to teach skilled blue collar jobs like auto mechanics or carpentry requires one to pass a mental aptitude test that many cannot pass. Computer related skills require more difficult tests.

The government does need to be involved in job training of all kinds to avoid scams like Trump University. For profit schools are more expensive and less reliable than government managed schools.

Education, while important, tends to be overrated. No one can educate what does not exist.

 

There are so many flaws in this post, I dont know where to begin.

 

The most obvious flaw in you comment is that you made a broad generalization without any substantiation at all.

 

Once I figure out where to start....I'll get back at ya on it.

 

Shootersa really makes me laugh. The skill gap for jobs has existed for way more than a decade. In fact during the crash of 2008 when the unemployment rate was about 10% American companies were still importing skilled workers to fill them. And it has only gotten worse. 6 million jobs just sitting there to be filled. And shootersa thinks that after the problem has existed for more than a decade companies and workers are going to solve it by themselves.

Maybe we need a What Made You Laugh Your Ass Today thread for things just like this.

 

Yesh, that's always worked so well in the past. Why should we have elementary schools? Why can't Wal-Mart teach people to read, write, and add? After all, if Wal-Mart needs cashiers, let them train them.

Corporations have always been reluctant to put money into training workers, especially if the learned knowledge can be used to get a job for a competitor. This can be seen in automotive dealerships. What a man/woman learns about the latest lane departure hepatic actuator (that's a real thing) in a Silverado, can used in any Chevy dealership. If GM weren't footing most of the bill, (and requiring training participation) few dealers would put out a penny for the effort.

This "My house isn't on fire, so why should I pay for a fire department" attitude is another aspect of conservative contempt for working people.