income tax

This question came up, not because I am opposed to income tax.. The question came up, in relation to the many things members of the government have done that was very illegle. the movie had some good moments of thought,, but I cannot take it much more than entertainment..
I for one cannot process information in my mind fast enough to keep up with words and a visual image... I always try to have it on paper, so I can read it..
I have at times taped the sound of a information piece, and then converted it to type..

My years in public relations and advertising make me take every word, and group of words and question them.. Years ago there was a law about "Truth in Advertising" where did it go?
Many people watch a news piece, movie, or documentary, and go away entertained and with a mindset of "that was all the truth"
A good fiction writer puts in enough true facts so you begin to read it as all true.. ie "The evening news"

 

The thing is that film was a series of disjointed, disconnected truths. And at least one lie. And some purposeful exclusions. To the folks who are so strongly swayed by the film "Freedom to Fascism," have you not been taught to question what you hear?

1) The first point of the film is to prove that there is no legal justification for income tax. That's fine, but income tax has become a nececcary part of America's government. The film tries to suggest otherwise, saying that gas taxes pay for roads, and local taxes pay for education, and so on. They say that the corporate tax matches, to the penny, the national defense budget. That is total bullshit. It's pretty common knowledge that the current defence spending is (opinion) insanely out of control and (fact) creating a deficit never before seen, following a period of unmatched government surplus. That was the Clinton era, where he was forced to work with the Republican-controlled Congress, like it or not.

Essentially, the film is suggesting that everything is paid for from other taxes, and that your income tax goes straight to the pokets of bankers. What about the other things the government spends money on, besides roads and schools and the military? They still have to pay for government buildings, the salaries of every congressperson, the president, the judiciary, all of the helpers of the federal governemnt from Condoleeza Rice down to the guy who cleans the floors at your local federal building. They have to pay the IRS, the FBI and all of the intelligence and protection agencies within the execuative branch. They have to come up with money for special funding, be it faith-based initiatives or be it grants for wildlife reserves. They have to fund parks and pay for NASA. And the last time I checked, I don't think I pay any special NASA tax every time I look up at the sky. Point being, yes, your income tax is used by the government, and if you don't think so, you're forcing blindness upon yourself.


2)The movie points out that a bunch of government actions, mostly excecuative orders, that are all obvious infringements upon the bill of rights, and basic human rights for that matter. But no link is given to show how the bankers of the Federal Reserve had anything at all to do with this. These infringements should infuriate you, but they should not come as a shock from this movie, they have been reported. Again, there is no link given to show that these infringements upon freedom are caused by a cluster of bankers, and the whole section is a fear-tactic to get you frightened and ready to believe the conclusions forthcoming in the film.

Also following this red-herring fear tactic is the section showing how the IRS has infringed upon people's basic rights. Yes, this is clear abuse of power, but again, I don't see how the fact that the IRS is corrupt, even the fact that the IRS is unfounded by tax law or tax code, I don't see how this proves the existance of super-bankers.

The film then addresses future assaults on our freedoms. ID cards, implanted radio chips, digital money which can be controlled. Yes, this future is scary, and yes, this future is on it's way. But again, I don't see any proof that it is coming as a result of intellectual-eliete bankers. And frankly, digital money is already here. I rarely use cash any more (I get cash-back bonus rewards for using my debit card as a credit card. Know why? THE BANKERS want me to use it.), so I'm sure all of my purchases are traceable, and I'm sure my funds and property could be siezed. Also, we already have an established ID system in America. Passports, Driver's Licences - you can't travel without identification already. Yes, the idea of a national identification card, especially one with radio transmitters, is terrifying, but we are already partially there, and again, there is no link given to prove that this is a resul of super-bankers.


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Yes, I agree that the Federal Reserve should not be an unregulated, privately held bank, if in fact it is.

Yes, I agree that money has enslaved America's working class, but it has always been that way. I mean it; the lower classes of America have ALWAYS been a servant class. And frankly, our quality of life is relatively better than most other forms of servant classes in the history of the world.

Yes, I think our rights are being infringed upon more and more.

But again, I don't see how this is a result of super-bankers, and I don't see, at any point, how conclusive evidence is given to connect these dots. The producer of this film keeps asking to be shown the law. I am asking of him and of this film's supporters, to show me some actual PROOF.

Learn to question things and think for yourself.

 

Hold on here possum: you have so many things wrong, out of place, mis-named, and misinformed.. Just calm down for a day or two, and I will post a flow chart and ownership chart ..
I have to go back to oil again,, but give me two days and we will look at the money happenings.. Don't worry it will not go away..
The movie Freedom to Facishm is just that with well placed words, it makes a beleivable looking story. But it is not all fact.. But you are saying it is..

 

Thank you, Thorny.

 

.. To coffee man I am so glad that you came along to finally straighten us out of our confusion. Marxist what? God caffeine you are so damn full of yourself. I don't give a shit about a marxist anything. Then you were bored with the film? Why am I not surprised and oh yes (sniff sniff) Michaekl Moores Film was far better wasn't it(sniff)..I don't give a damn about Michael Moore. Thats not what the post is about goofy.. You know what, I think what we have here caffeine is any post that doesn't originate under your name is sniffed at by you. You know what I'm listening to right now? Why beings it's important to you, don't you start a thread about marxism? I'm just dying to see what you have to say...sniff sniff

 

Possum, why did you just attack my character again? I laid out a (reasonable) analysis of the film in question, and your only response is to insult me personally.

And yes, read the first sentance of my post again and you'll see that I DON'T like Michael Moore.

 

Caffine's use of Marxist was proper... don't condeme something because don't understand it,,find out what it is then say your piece..
This post origionated under my name,, and I think caffeine has added more to than I have, and accurate too. Become informed. Study high school geometry.. (inside joke)

 

well T.R. i amsurprised but not shocked...everyone changes their mind now and then..Rather then "get educated"... T.R. I am getting an education from the government as we speak. I am pushing my local and state rep's to answer simple questions about the Fed and the IRS. The education is happeninmg T.R. right before your very eyes. Rather then sit around expecting others to do it ...you do it .write letters and ask for answers. Write to the editor of the local newspsperas..get involved..or is that not what you want after all.

 

Where are the marxist T.R? Where they should be decaying remains in a shallow ditch somewhere.That"s what I think of your marxist bullshit...you got it?

 

Marxist thought is esentially recognizing the basic underlying power structure, often through money. You're more of a Marxist than you think.

 

I received this private message today from possum. I'd just like it to be known that I was threatened.

 

I got a good smile out of this. But the response from some people to a lot of these threads show how strongly the all powerful media is able to influence with bits, byes, changed words, and short burst of info, followed with something to take out mind in another direction.. But not truth!

Some people are so brave, especially if they are anomious or protected by a speakers podium in DC

 

Here's the things that got me about the film in regards to income taxes. First and formost this is the first I've heard about it. That large of a protest and a class action suit should have made national news in my opinion and it didn't. That shows a much broader complancency and/or censorship on the part of our news outlets than I would have dreamed.
Secondly, I am not content to go placidly along as a wage slave falsly believing that I am protected by the constitution of the united states of America and have it trampled by elected officials, buearacrats and lower courts.
Finally, it does appear to me that it is time for some kind of revolt, whether it is refusing to pay incomne taxes or some other kind form of protest.

 

Income taxes, or whatever.

Dude.

Realize that (I'm assumming you're not within the top 1% here) you're going to spend your whole life making money to pay somebody else, no matter what you do. You are a "slave wage" wether it's income taxes or not. Think about it. You work to make a buck. Chances are you'll spend it. You'll spend it on food, on housing, on clothing, on a vehicle, and on some other shit that you may or may not need. The money you don't spend, you put in a bank. The bank uses it to earn interest. If you're smart, you put it in some form of savings that earns you interest. If it's in the bank, and they're paying you interest, you'd better expect that they are earning more interest then they are paying you. That's how it works. You either spend money on stuff that has been marked up several times between its creation and your purchase, or your money earns a bank interest.

The only way you can actually make real money of your own is in the market, and chances are you'll be spending so much of your money on things you want and need, you'll never really be able to purchase enough stock to actually make true, significant capital gains. That's just the nature of today's middle and lower class.

 

income tax.

Possum started this question,,, or rather I started the thread to get some talk going.. on the legtality of income tax.. What I find is Yes it was set up illegally. It seems that it was a panic thing in the end.. panic of running out of money..
There has been a tax protest every few years, and it usually does no good.... As years went by it became grandfathered in so much that it was hard to touch....

In meetings over the past month or so,, this tax thing came up,,, and around the table lots of more things came up that were not legal...

The first thing if a new congress has control is the minimum wage vowed to be done in the first 100 days. Now depending on who gets in which committee, There will be a bill to take all these antique thorns as a group, study, and pass them in mass.
Sort of clean up the file cabinet.. If we get a democrat in the 9th district it will happen within 2 years..

 

Hell Caffine I know all that plus you forgot DARE (drugs are really expensive) And just between you and me I have a theory that if you are not careful you can get your hands on enough money to kill yourself with. It's the constitutional rights and protections, checks and balances thing that I have a problem with.

 

income tax

All through this thread,, I do not hear anything said like "INCOME TAX IS NOT THE GOV's ONLY INCOME".
As all should know, we did pretty well with out a income tax in the past..But then congress began the "spend more game".. The Income tax was needed to keep the tarrif taxs down..
There are a lot of "Hidden Taxes" out there. Every time I hear the word Privitation, I cringe, we will spend more money, and open up double taxation.

I do not know the figures, but the number of people employed by the IRS, and the money paid to them added to the other overhead, not much is left...

Many years back I wrote an article on how an election is won by just the vote of the government employees..
A governer, lost his job because he had leaned too heavy on a teamster union to make them vote for him.. How the hell did I get so far off the Thread????

 

Here's one thing I do know. I tangled with the IRS a few years back and found them to be the most efficent bill collectors on the face of the earth. I would really like to find a way to rein them in. And I don't really mind paying taxes if I know where my money is going, and I thought I did but now I'm pretty sure I don't.