God help us all and forgive me for what we are about to do if he is !

 

If you are going to start quoting psychologists as the great priests of truth in matters of the mind I will remind you once again that as recently as 1972 the American psychological ass classified homosexuality as a mental
Illness. They also endorsed electroshock therapy and a great many still believe in freudianism.

William James famously said that psychology is that a troublesome science .

I'm sure that any of us could mine the Internet and find psychologists who have the alternate point of view. It's a pseudo science in any case and certainly not respected in scientific circles

I mean where is all of this going to end you don't like trump so why stop with mental illness? Why not come up with say a group of theologians that say that he is evil? Why not play his speeches backwards until someone will contend that he is saying that all American puppies are secretly North Korean spies ?

If you have a legitimate political gripe with him then begin lobbying your people in Congress to start an investigation into his behavior instead of coming up with these crazy ploys to undo the election ?

 

Yes I know that he is my CIC and the following is said in jest and is simply fodder and there is nothing to be read into it .

Sometimes we are not able to defuse a bomb and our only recourse is to take it to unpopulated open territory or open water to self destruct . Doesn't Donald Trump have a yacht ?

Of what further use is he to us , he already gave my boss sweeping power to do as we see fit !

 

My ex-mother-in-law hated president Obama to the point where she said it was time that he was assassinated .

I took her to task for this and gave some thought to turning this over to the appropriate Government agency because she was talking about murder .

When you compare Donald Trump to a bomb that you have to explode over open water and say doesn't he have a yacht it strikes me that you are also advocating assassination .

This concerns me . I need to give this some thought

 

There is nothing to mull over , it was fodder as I said . I extinguish enemy life not friendly one's . I do not advocate assassination and you are spending too much time overthinking this . Not only am I willing to take a bullet for my CIC , I already have twice .
Good to know you are a rat though .

 

When you compare the president of the United States to a bomb that cannot be dismantled and sometimes needs to be exploded over open water and then remind your audience that Donald Trump has a boat you may call that fodder and jesting but many a truth has been told in jest. It also gives other people ideas when expressed in a public site . How could this possibly not be viewed as an assassination fantasy at the very least ?
You appear disgruntled and perhaps with all that you have seen there is some justification for that .
I don't know how serious this is but I am not overthinking it because I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt

 

That's your resp0nse? One 45 year old example?

ROFLCOPTERS!!!!!​

And I will call your other bluff right here and no. You do that. You show me some examples of mental health professionals who say Trump is not mentally ill. I would be very interested in seeing that.

And it actually seems pretty stupid to me to equate science with Religion. Do you also believe the earth is only 6,000 years old and humans walked with dinosaurs?

 

How, exactly, are Democrats obstructing when the Republicans control the entire government?

 

http://www.slate.com/articles/healt...onald_trump_isn_t_mentally_ill_he_s_evil.html

I chose a site popular with liberals.

For those of you who do not want to read such a large article it basically says that there is no real working definition of mental illness . And by some definitions up to 50% of Americans will suffer mental illness at some point in their life. It also points out that quite a number of presidents could have been diagnosed with mental illness by various standards .

In 1964 the American psychiatric Association expressly made it for bidden for its members to diagnose any public personality From a distance and called this this the Goldwater rule. The policy is still in place today .

I also remembered Sigmund Freud attempting to diagnose President Wilson from a distance claiming that Wilson viewed his father as God because he was a pastor I believe So Wilson of course believed he was the son of God and as Jesus it was his duty to save the world .

There is truly crazy shit that comes out of psychology .

My father was a psychologist and before he died told me that Trump was a complete braggart and asshole but his manipulation was completely calculated and not a symptom of anything as interesting as mental illness. This article seems to reinforce that .

So before we start invoking the 25th amendment step back take a breath and stop being petulant.

 

Also before we start allowing psychologists to start making decisions about who the president should or should not be let's remember that these people are largely responsible for the educational choices in the public school system in the United States .

Let us also remember that this is a discipline that decided on a method before it even decided what its subject matter should be.

Most people on here know that if any group of psychologists were to diagnose Hillary Clinton in this way from a distance we would be calling what they said a bunch of bunk .

 

It seems that you have not read any of the psychological articles that have been written about Hillary Clinton or Donald trump so far.
And that you also have made up your mind as to it being a flawed science while you have no real reason other than your dad was in that line and you seem to have severe issues with it.

Beginning with the Bright Side we can expect Mrs. Clinton to be:

• Low to Moderately Adjusted. Although Mrs. Clinton conveys calmness under pressure, she does appear to be a bit anxious and nervous. She takes criticism personally and is seems genuinely disappointed with herself when she makes a mistake. The downside is that she may hesitate to take action out of nerves or fear of failure. On the other hand, she takes negative feedback and criticism seriously, and is responsive to it.
  
• Highly Ambitious. Mrs. Clinton is competitive, wants to win, and wants to be in charge. She will be concerned about results and getting things done. On the downside, she may tend to compete with those who are actually on her team and potentially alienate her staff if she does.
  
• Low to Moderately Sociable. Unlike her Republican counterpart, Mrs. Clinton tends to be less comfortable speaking publicly, and especially extemporaneously. Although she is well-connected, she only has a small network of very close confidants. The disadvantage for Mrs. Clinton is that she appears less charismatic and confident than other politicians, which hurts her perceived leadership ability. Interestingly, charisma and confidence are more associated with gaining leadership positions (i.e., leadership emergence) than leading a winning team (i.e., leadership effectiveness).
  
• Low on Interpersonal Sensitivity. Mrs. Clinton is seen as distant and impersonal. Indeed, her detractors regularly point this as her major flaw (e.g., that she is a robot). She doesn't shy away from confrontation and seems unsympathetic. The upside is that she tends to take make decisions more on rational than emotional grounds. The downside is that she has difficulty connecting with others.3
  
• High on Prudence. Mrs. Clinton is detail-oriented and cares about following the rules. This is seen most clearly in her rigorous preparation for public appearances and meetings. She is loyal and dependable to those that she perceives to be on her team (e.g., acceptance of Secretary of State after losing the primary to Obama in 2008). She is likely to be careful and considered in making decisions.4
  
• Low on Inquisitiveness. Mrs. Clinton is practically focused and does not appear to be particularly creative in terms of developing policies or solving problems. Instead, she tends to prefer tried and true solutions and borrowing policy ideas from others. At the same time, she pours over the details of proposed solutions before bringing them to the forefront. As a result, she is fairly predictable and prone to be perceived by some as boring.

On the Dark Side we can expect Mrs. Clinton to be:

• Low on Excitable. As just noted, Mrs. Clinton tends to be stable and predictable in terms of her mood and emotions. Indeed, she is publicly unreactive to personal attacks and criticisms (though privately criticisms appear to bother her more). Interestingly, this characteristic is perhaps the one that distinguishes Mrs. Clinton most from Mr. Trump. Mr. Trump is far more reactive to personal attacks and unpredictable. In other words, while criticisms bother Mrs. Clinton internally (low Adjustment), she does not let it show publicly. Mr. Trump is precisely the opposite.

• Highly Bold. Although Mrs. Clinton is not as Bold as Mr. Trump, virtually every politician scores high on this characteristic (including Barack Obama). It takes a high degree of self-confidence, feelings of grandiosity, and arrogance to decide to run for President of the United States. As a result, these people are difficult to work with because they feel entitled to special treatment, intimidate others, and overestimate their capabilities (i.e., virtually every President in history has failed to follow through on election promises).

• Highly Cautious. Mrs. Clinton seems slow to take action, which appears to largely stem from fear of making a mistake or facing criticism. Indeed, she appears pressured (from inside and out) to be perfect at all times. The downside is that this will make Mrs. Clinton slow to act and make decisions. On the plus side, she will thoroughly consider each decision she makes.

• Low on Mischievousness. Despite popular conspiracy theories, Mrs. Clinton appears to be low on Mischievousness. She is not particularly charming, nor daring. She does not appear to enjoy risks or thrive on excitement. As a leader she will be controlled and is unlikely to make decisions on an impulse. On the downside, she won’t appear to be very much fun.
  
• Low on Colorful. Mrs. Clinton is similarly low on Colorful. She is not particularly likely to entertain with jokes and is more likely to come across to others as boring. She is not adept at calling attention to herself. She is more likely to point to her record of public service rather than to her own personal characteristics. Once again, this distinguishes her dramatically from Mr. Trump who is perceived as much more self-promoting and entertaining.
  
• Highly Diligent. Mrs. Clinton is perfectionistic. She has extremely high standards for herself and is highly organized. She is obsessive about details and takes preparation very seriously. This means Mrs. Clinton will get many things done and do them well. On the downside, she may be overly controlling and difficult to work with as others may not live up to her high standards for performance.
  
• High on Dutifulness. Mrs. Clinton does not like to go against the grain or appear to be particularly rebellious. Indeed, she seems to care much more about pleasing others and is willing to compromise (or change) her opinion on matters to get others to like (e.g., stance on gay marriage). On the plus side, she will be willing to listen to others and take their advice.

In summary, Mrs. Clinton is highly motivated—even obsessive—about her own success. She is calm and controlled in her outward behavior, though internally she takes criticism to heart. She is not particularly socially skilled (compared to other politicians) and would undoubtedly rather people focus on her service record rather than her on stage performances. While she has many personality strengths that would make her an effective leader, she lacks in charisma and excitement that many look for when choosing leaders. Additionally, her tendency to be rule-abiding combined with her strong desire to achieve means she will tend towards moderate and cautious policies, probably far more moderate than she is promising her constituency.

As I have noted before, the fate of any organization is largely a function of that organization's leadership. As such, the stakes of the upcoming election for the United States are high. Ultimately, it is a person’s personality that gets him or her elected and likewise a person’s personality that indicates how he or she will lead. The remainder of the 2016 election is sure to be quite fascinating as America chooses between Mr. Trump, whose personality is on full display at all times, and Mrs. Clinton, whose personality is more guarded are difficult to discern. The former has a combination of characteristics that are far more entertaining and electable, while the latter has a combination that is considerably more boring, but likely more effective for leading.

 

And same source for Trump

We can look at both sides of Mr. Trump's personality. The Bright Side (how he typically behaves when he's at his best) and the Dark Side (how he typically behaves when he lets down his guard).

Beginning with the Bright Side we can expect Mr. Trump to be:

• Highly Adjusted. Mr. Trump seems not at all anxious or nervous. He will appear calm under pressure, won't take criticism personally, and is quite pleased with himself as a person. The downside is that he will be reluctant to listen to feedback — especially negative feedback — from others.
  
• Highly Ambitious. Mr. Trump seems competitive, wants to win, and wants to be in charge. He will be concerned about results and getting things done. On the downside, he may tend to compete with those who are actually on his team and potentially alienate his staff if he does.
  
• Highly Sociable. Mr. Trump likes to entertain, to be the center of attention, and to talk...a lot. The obvious downside is that he can be unwilling to listen, overbearing, and shoot off at the mouth without thinking.
  
• Low on Interpersonal Sensitivity. Mr. Trump is direct, doesn't shy away from confrontation, or really care much about peoples' feelings. The upside is that he is willing to let people go when needed (e.g., "You're Fired"). The downside is that he is hostile and alienates others.
  
• Low on Prudence. Mr. Trump doesn't care much for rules and tends to avoid them. He is independent minded and seems unconcerned with details. The positive side is that he will be quick to make decisions and to make things happen.
  
• Highly Inquisitive. Mr. Trump has a lot of ideas and a big imagination. He'll have all sorts of ideas for solving problems, but he may have problems implementing them and can be a bit unpredictable.

On the Dark Side we can expect Mr Trump to be:

• Highly Bold. This is Mr. Trump's most defining characteristic. He seems unusually self-confident, and shows feelings of grandiosity and entitlement. These individuals tend to make a good first impression, but are difficult to work with because they feel entitled to special treatment, ignore their critics, and intimidate others. He'll tend to overestimate his capabilities.
  
• Highly Mischievous. Mr. Trump seems charming, interesting, and daring. He enjoys taking risks, pushing the limits, and seems to thrive on excitement. Such people are hard to work with because they are impulsive, downplay their mistakes, take ill-advised risks, and have no regrets.
  
• Highly Colorful. Mr. Trump seems quick, fun, and socially skilled. He loves making use of his celebrity and having his accomplishments recognized. He's very good at calling attention to himself. Such people are hard to work with because they are self-promoting, overcommitted, and easily angered.
  
• Low on Diligence. See Prudence above, but multiply everything by two.
  
• Low on Dutifulness. Mr. Trump likes to defy the status quo, doesn't care about pleasing others, and is quick to make decisions. He won't take orders (or advice) from many people (if anyone).

In summary, what we can expect from Mr. Trump is what we have already seen and know about his reputation.2 What does this mean for the United States? People tend to vote for leaders in their own image. Thus, the personality of Mr. Trump also highlights the characteristics of those who will likely support and vote for him. As such, Mr. Trump's popularity in the polls also serves as an indicator of our current American culture.

 

Stumbler I gave one example as you say of the problems in psychology.

Here is an article that shows how widespread the problem is .

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.livescience.com/27262-psychology-studies-questioned.html

It's kind of long and complicated so I doubt that you will completely understand it but it might help others on this thread understand the fundamental problems in the field.

In any case given the problems with the data interpretation and with the unwillingness to replicate data and the sometimes out right falsification I hope that it's clear that these are not the people to make the judgment about the invocation of the 25th amendment to the constitution .

Look what a wonderful job they've done in informing our public school system .

Also this whole business where you have latched onto about the problems with religion is getting old really old really fast .
It's like a dog with a chew toy.

Many scientists are religious . That does not falsify their data

And no I don't think that the world is 6000 years old . And of course you know I don't believe that. Just one more ad hominem .

And before you make science your religion I suggest that you treat it as a tool like I do and as a tool only . I was trained as a chemist so I know science .

If you believe that science is the end of the search for transcendental truth , I suggest that you read Karl Popper's critique of inductive reasoning .

But I doubt that any of this will move you because you were here for one reason and one reason only and that is because you enjoy the denigration of others .

And I think that that is very sad .

 

If you view psychologists as the high priests and final word on human behavior there's nothing that I can do to change your mind .


But to say that Mrs. Clinton takes her mistakes very seriously is not something that I can take even a little bit seriously .

If you can think of one thing that she has ever taken responsibility for I would be very surprised.

When questioned on ben ghazi She became extremely defensive and literally screamed what difference does it make now ? That's one example .

In her autobiography she speaks of growing up in an ideal suburban household when her father was an abusive alcoholic . Another lie that was on corrected and another example .

She was one of the leading proponents of the second Gulf war while in the Senate and then ran against the administration because they were engaged in this war. That's another .

She speaks of vast right wing conspiraciexs and I don't think anyone in or outside the field of psychology would view conspiracy thinking as healthy .

Perhaps you should read the article about the widespread research problems in psychology that I posted in this thread .

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.livescience.com/27262-psychology-studies-questioned.html

 

And yes it would be better if Trump stopped talking and appearing defensive about his election win . Sadly it does not look presidential

The fact is that he did win by every standard in our election system.

But I can't think of any newly elected president who has faced so much political opposition after the fact of the election since President Lincoln .

Given how defensive most of the people who are defending the liberal agenda are on here I can easily imagine them being equally defensive were they elected president .

 

While 50% of Americans might suffer some form of mental illness at some point in their life is it Ok for the president of the United States of America to be suffering from mental illness @NicoleDeLint given the awesome responsibilities the president has and the destructive power at his finger tips?

And yes other presidents have suffered from mental illness during their presidency including Ronald Reagan who was suffering from Alzheimer disease near the end of his last term which Nancy Reagan and REgan's handlers hid from the public and especially congress.

But is that ok @NicoleDeLint?

This is true but here are a couple articles about why psychologists and psychiatrists are making exceptions to the Goldwater rule now because of just how unstable and dangerous Trump's mental illness is.

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-s...ant-narcissism-paranoia-reality-a7554691.html

http://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit.../trump-mental-health-narcissistic-personality

And I can find a few more if you want them.

Are mental healthcare professionals still adhering to Sigmund Freud today @NicoleDeLint or have they dismissed him?

If what you are saying here is true surely you can cite some examples can't you @NicoleDeLint?

 

Nope, just an alpha male in charge, making things happen !!

 

Lol

 

Surely you cannot think of yourself as polite unless you are one of those people who fall into that 50% group that was Mentioned in the article . Non fucking fucker is just one of many examples.

Yes Freudianism still exists as a form of therapy and is the form of choice for many in the psychological field .

Yes there are some that want to extinguish the Goldwater rule but psychology has changed his mind on so many things that that's not surprising and I believe the American psychiatric Association has not abandoned it yet .

Yes I believe that Ronald Reagan should have been removed given his advanced Alzheimer's disease . But that is an organic disorder . I also think that Woodrow Wilson should've been removed given his inability to do the job and that is another example of a conspiracy and cover up only this time by a Democrat and a Progressive Democrat at that .

As to the question about who is calling for invoking the 25th amendment all I can do is ask you does it make any sense to throw out the charge that Donald Trump is mentally ill without having that be a reason to remove him from office ? Would people say things like this and then say well he's mentally ill but let's just keep him in there . Maybe just for the point of complaining ?

OK I have attempted to answer all of your questions . If I missed some or even ignored some it's not because I am afraid to give examples of the charges that I have made or the statements I believe it's because Well stumbler I have a life .

I don't care about winning but what I do care about is the proper course of this country . Crapping on the commander-in-chief every single day over things both large and petty and that includes things like the condition of his restaurant in Florida . I mean let's work out some kind a priority here . And I honestly don't remember if that came from you or another member .

And like I said this is a porn forum. I'm not sure winning in here is anything to brag about

 

He definitely shows enough symptoms to be worrisome, but unless he is actually examined without the media lens, we can't be sure. Unfortunately, it seems most politicians these days are dangerously unhinged. It doesn't matter what side they're on, extremes seem to be "in" right now. Can we get some sane people in the government? Please?