When are you going to surrender your guns Stumbler?

 

One farmer surrendering one rifle does not a movement make.

 

I think you are wrong......The ripples are starting to multiply

https://mashable.com/article/new-zealand-trademe-gun-sales-stops/#7EOR4en5Tiqu
Semi-automatic gun sales banned on New Zealand's largest classifieds site after attack

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/ch...litarystyle-semiautomatic-firearms-nationwide
Hunting & Fishing pulls 'military-style' semi-automatic firearms nationwide


10:28 p.m. ET, March 17, 2019
Gun store owner who sold shooter mail-order firearms supports "decisive action"

The owner of New Zealand firearm chain Gun City has come out in support of Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern's "swift" actions in the wake of the Christchurch terrorist attack.

Gun City managing director David Tipple said it appeared the gunman, who shot dead 50 people at two New Zealand mosques, bought four of his weapons from the store.

"All Gun City sales to this individual followed a police-verified, online, mail-order process," he said. "We detected nothing extraordinary about this license holder."

Tipple said he was "dismayed and disgusted" by the attack and added that Gun City "fully supports (Ardern's) swift and decisive actions" in the wake of the tragedy.

"Accurate concerns have been raised and we want to assist in ensuring effective responses," he said.

 

NOt an attempt to derail the thread but it does deal with the type of events that cause this.

New Zealand killer drifted from one extreme ideology to another — extremism is real threat

So we can blame Chelsea Clinton for the massacre at the mosques in Christchurch, New Zealand? Glad that’s cleared up.

Clinton was confronted with this bizarre theory at a vigil held at New York University for the 50 Muslim men, women and children gunned down by Brenton Tarrant during their Friday prayers.

“After all that you have done, all the Islamophobia that you have stoked,” seethed senior Leen Dweik, “this right here is the result of a massacre stoked by people like you and the words you have put out in the world.” She was referring to Clinton’s rather mild criticism of Rep. Ilhan Omar, D-Minn., for comments regarded by many as anti-Semitic. Clinton’s lackluster response — “I’m so sorry you feel that way” — shows the apple didn’t fall far from the noncommittal tree.

At first blush, it seems odd that a presumably educated university student could concoct such a fantastic notion. But in America’s emotionally charged, Twitter-enabled, ideologically divided political scene, these kinds of arguments are commonplace. Any disagreement, even among people who agree on 90 percent of the issues, can instantly be elevated to a blanket condemnation of the offending party. And when everything is couched as "extremist," the word loses its meaning.



Read more commentary:

New Zealand mosque massacre proves social media giants don't deserve their power, freedom

After New Zealand mosque attack, I won't watch the news coverage of another mass shooting

New Zealand shooting is warning for US: Get serious about white supremacist terror threat

As you might expect, most of the blame-gaming for the tragedy in New Zealand was aimed at President Donald Trump, especially because the Australian shooter noted in his 74-page manifesto that he was a supporter of Trump “as a symbol of renewed white identity and common purpose.”

Yet those eager to tie Trump to the shootings mostly ignored the next sentence in which Tarrant asked whether he supported Trump “as a policymaker and leader? Dear God no.”

Tarrant wrote that he was primarily catalyzed to violence while touring France, which he saw as overrun by immigrant “invaders.” His other influences included African-American conservative activist Candace Owens, 1930s British fascist leader Oswald Mosley and Norwegian terrorist Anders Breivik, who was imprisoned for killing 77 people in two attacks in 2011.

Shooter wanted to divide Americans
Tarrant was very much aware of how his actions in New Zealand would play out in the American arena. He wrote that one of the reasons he carried out the attack — and with guns — was “to create conflict between the two ideologies within the United States on the ownership of firearms in order to further the social, cultural, political and racial divide within the United states.”

So when Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Kim Kardashian, Madonna and others used this tragedy to push the gun control agenda, they followed Tarrant’s predicted script.

But those who wanted to use Tarrant’s work as a platform for more wide-ranging condemnation of American conservatives were stymied by his unwillingness to take issue positions following the usual U.S. political battle lines. “The nation with the closest political and social values to my own is the People’s Republic of China,” he wrote. Tarrant said he could be both right wing and left wing, “depending on the definition.”

Tarrant called himself an “ecofascist” promoting “green nationalism,” anti-population growth (excepting Europeans), anti-urbanization and pro-sustainable economic practices. He is pro-union, pro-minimum wage and pro-workers rights (to keep out immigrant labor). And he explicitly rejects conservatism, capitalism, individualism and consumerism. “Conservatism is dead,” he wrote. “Thank God. Now let us bury it and move on to something of worth.”

While the ideas in Tarrant’s manifesto do not fit neatly into the fixed boxes pundits use to define American politics, the document as a whole resonates with other examples of extremist literature such as the Unabomber manifesto and Osama bin Laden’s 2002 “Letter to the American People.” It presents a radical worldview, a list of grievances and a mobilizing call to action. It details a terroristic methodology, to agitate, destabilize, create crises, and exploit opportunities. It is a case study in terrorism as a revolutionary method.

Extremism is psychological, not a choice
Most important, the online diatribe shows that extremism is a psychological tendency more than a rational choice. Tarrant describes his ideological journey: “When I was young I was a communist, then an anarchist and finally a libertarian before coming to be an ecofascist.” He floated through various, mutually contradictory political orientations whose only common coin was radicalism itself.

For Tarrant and extremists like him of any stripe or cause, satisfaction comes from being a "true believer," to use Eric Hoffer’s classic term. These people subordinate normal human characteristics such as reason, kindness and mutual respect to a dehumanizing universal cause that strips away compassion and makes bloody acts of terrorism not only permissible but mandatory.

To the extent we see these tendencies developing in the United States, with politics driven more by strident ideology and less by the common good, with more strict party lines and less compromise, with increasingly bizarre charges of extremism hurled primarily by people in the thrall of their own radical worldview, our country becomes more susceptible to the programs the fanatics are pushing. And this is exactly what the Brenton Tarrants of the world want.

 

The N Z prime minister has been leading from the front, full of grace under the circumstances, spreading love thru out NZ for the victims and families, a true inspiration for all

 

We have a bit of a problem.

Only 6 bodies have been released.

I think police will have to review their protocols.

They have misled families and friends ,
quite unintentionally I'm sure.

They have also failed to keep traumatised families truely properly informed.

None of this under the circumstances is surprising , or nescassarily warrants criticism.

It will have to be asked (I think) ,
could and should the process of identification be started as soon as they have victims .
(after all., it is pretty obvious most if not all victims will have the same basic autopsy conclusion.
They were shot)

All autopsy's were completed by yesterday , which is when they'd told families they'd get their loved ones bodies back ,
but then said they could not ,
until identification was completed.

(these are not mystery people , not people who have been found somewhere unexpected , not people who didn't come from or belong in the area their bodies were found

The people who can identify them , are standing around outside waiting ,
basically.
Many will have things like dental records , tattoo's , birthmarks , scars etc.

Surely most should have been identified by now.
But maybe I'm wrong.
Or ,
maybe they'll get a "could have done better"

That is all for the future.

 

Meantime , the government has stepped up , to quickly ensure all can get through the next little while , without added financial stresses.

The familes of every body will get a funeral grant of up to $10,000 .
and
All affected will get an immediate grant of $6,000 per child.

That's an excellent start I think.
There are lots of families without a parent , or a breadwinner ,
and also to traumatized to earn anyway.
It was important we provide at the very least for their basics ,
immediately.
(While longer term solutions are worked through ,
and without the need and stress of
"having to apply"
or to consider if they might have to repay)
They get that money to use as they need , now.

 

30 still in hospital
9 still critical

I think still including the little girl in Auckland hospital.
(her wounded father was medivaced to Auckland to be close to her)

The wall of flowers still grows.
Its now more an avenue of flowers.
They will all be taken to the botanic gardens eventually ,
to be composted , to grow new life.

Still the horrendous stories keep emerging ,
along with stories of amazing bravery

A father is so traumatized , he has sent his children to stay with a non Muslim family ,
and told them his arm is broken.
He still has to tell them the truth of all that has happened.

A man saw his wife shot through the arm ,
and that same bullet kill her friend behind her.

A private citizen , with no idea where the shooter was , picked up two wouded and delivered them to hospital ,
then turned around and went back , and picked up more ,
Twice.

(20 ambulances were running basically a shuttle service)

 

I have always wondered about the autopsies in these kinds of situation. We are aware that the people are dead and that they were shot.... There was no other method of killing employed that day? So do we need to spend hours checking the bodies? Does it matter if he died from the gunshot, loss of blood from the gunshot, or heart attack after the gunshot? Have we learned anything from the victims that will help us stop future crimes like this? Have we learned anything from the victims that will assist in prosecuting the perpetrators?
Or have we further traumatised the families of the slain?
Thoughts?

 

I appreciate the added grief that all these procedures are performed before the corpses are released.
However
When the defence lawyer starts up, they will seek to 'prove' that the test case died from causes other than being shot by the accused.
Fine detail will be gone into to try to prove that, perhaps, the victim died from a heart attack brought on by the incident, but caused by chronic blockage of the arteries.
And so the accused might plead guilty to Manslaughter.
It's vital that every last factor is investigated, logged and made available to the Prosecution.
The added grief caused by an extended wait for the deceased is nothing compared with the accused being found not guilty of murder on a medical technicality and walking free/on licence in a few years rather than being locked up for life.
Given the wonderful responses by the NZ Government and population, I feel sure that this will have been explained to the relatives.

 

Autopsies are performed in all homicide cases in order to help the prosecution tie the suspect or suspects to the person killed.

Ballistics will be done on all bullets recovered from the bodies of the victims and the crime scene as well.

This is done to ensure justice for the victims....

 

Even in the US where we have mass shootings all the time it can take a few days for the bodies to get released. And we have lots of practice at it my now.

And one thing that is just as big a concern if not bigger than the evidence is turning over the wrong body to the wrong family. There is also no telling how many of the victims have no family. Not to mention no ID. And worst of all gunshot wounds to the head and face can leave some victims unrecognizable by even close family members.

So all things considered I can understand why this might be taking a while.

 

The first burials today ,
a father and son who left Syria
only 10 months ago.

Leaving a wife , daughter , and another son , also shot , in a wheelchair, who wanted and tried to stand but couldn't.

 

Now been revealed ,
the scum was on his way to attack another mosque ,
it is believed.

Thank god for the alertness of the two cops , who spotted the suspect vehicle ,
and their quick decission to ram it off the road.

Also revealed , he was apprehended within about 21 minutes from starting.

Very lucky , considering he was so mobile .

Another attack and a bomb , doesn't bare thinking about

 

Also another scum appeared in court today ,
charged with distributing objectionable meterial.
A 34yr old man ,
again no public allowed in court ,
and no bail , remanded in custody until next appearance ,
next month .

They have more on their radar .

But we have to ask.

Why haven't they been taking a hard line since the laws were put in place ?

They could have had the murderer in court long before he acted.

 

My prayers go out to all the victims,family,friends and to New Zealand during this horrible time.

 

Stopping the shooter before he got to his next target is also being reported over here. But I am not sure how accurate these updates are. It is an opportunity to compare for accuracy I guess.

Christchurch shootings: Police believe they stopped a third attack

https://www.axios.com/christchurch-...916-6c6579b0-3abc-4649-9d29-70f2f40d4e3a.html

 

The haka is a type of ancient Māori war dance traditionally used on the battlefield,
as well as when groups came together in peace.
Haka are a fierce display of a tribe's pride, strength and unity. Actions include violent foot-stamping, tongue protrusions and rhythmic body slapping to accompany a loud chant. The words of a haka often poetically describe ancestors and events in the tribe's history.

Today, haka are still used during Māori ceremonies and celebrations to honour guests and show the importance of the occasion. This includes family events, like birthdays and weddings.

https://www.newzealand.com/uk/feature/haka/

 

​

 

I absolutely don't want to be to critical of the police handling of this whole thing.
BUT
I have already stated ,we have to look at and ask questions about many things , as we move forward .
One , their protocols for handling the dead and returning them to family.

It is interesting that suddenly ,
somehow , the process seems to have been accelerated somewhat.
Suddenly by last night , all of a sudden a lot of bodies were cleared for release.

about a day before , the estimate had been put out from Wednesday. to "we hope by Friday"
which is tomorrow.

Then suddenly last night , X number are now cleared for release.

It seems very likely that the growing negativity , and anger/frustration ,
gave them a little wake up call and prompted some smarter thinking.

Anyway , Good on them.

They are on a steeper learning curve than anyone , so any improvement is good ,
and a quick improvement right now is great.