I've avoided commenting in this thread but I have to admit, sexless or low-sex marriages keep me employed. I won't go full therapist / psychology but in about 3/4 of the cases, there's a very common theme related to the decline of sex and while kids, jobs and getting older all play a role, lack of communication and complacency are a near constant in the decline of sex. I'll stop there, I can write an entire dissertation on the subject but when sex within a marriage declines to a harmful level ("normal" is once a week in the 30s and 40s, even with kids and even with 10+ year unions - 48 to 64 times a year is considered the "average" and the range is due to culture, upbringing, region and environment) that breeds resentment, its communication/complacency in about 75% of the cases.

Neglect, abuse and medical issues make up the other 25%.

 

Sex and marriage!!! I have posted many times about this. After 20 years certainly through my share of ups and downs. Had a spell where it was like once or twice a month and I almost lost my damn mind. We had many discussions over this issue and it really came down to me after all was said and done. Currently I am working on doing other things than straight sex kind of moving it forward so that is another issue. BUT to get past that lack of sex completely we had a long talk about what it meant for me to be married what I needed and what I expected, that was countered with what she needed and expected etc etc. You will probably find that womens needs are sooooo much different than ours and in order to open her up you need to be sweet and non confrontational. It is so fucking hard to go through this but if it is worth the work put the work in.

 

This may create heresy but I knew I had a much bigger sex drive than my wife could handle. I loved my wife and we had good sex but just not enough. I partook in gay sex, bisexuality, to fulfill my sexual needs. I love women and enjoy men..... That may be a more radical approach to the issue. It does take some pressure off sex in the marriage.

 

@KatieColorado 48 to 64 times a year.. !! all I can say is Wow !!

I read that 10 times or less a year is considered a sexless marriage and I can assure you that the number of times I have sex with my wife doesnt come close to double digits let alone 48 to 64

Im not sure that apathy on my part is the issue and she knows full well that I want to have sex with her. We do communicate I will say that though: I ask she says no,

Im guessing there is another reason in my case but I am fucked if I know what

 

Too many times a man will complain about a sexless marriage when in reality he is the only one not having sex.
Many times a woman has found a man who really cares about her. They tend to be more likely to have sex with a man when the man shows he cares about her.
Many married men forget that part and get stuck in a sexless marriage. While his wife is enjoying herself with another man.

 

The 10 number is more historical than it is relevant today. When abandonment was legal grounds for divorce (before the age of no-fault divorces...mine is finished tomorrow!!!!) that was one such measurement. Dr. Phil still perpetuates the 10 times/year number but under "the new normal", there are couples where both parties consent to be sexless and thus it's dangerous to use a simple baseline number to define what is and isn't sexless. That said, when one partner wants sex more than the other, there's obviously a sexual imbalance but like I said, communication and complacency play the decisive role and communication isn't "I want to have sex" with her saying "no". Sex and money are the 2 biggest fight makers. It requires an honest and deep conversation that most couples are too scared to have. Men frequently treat sex as a right of marriage and many women, especially after children, look as sex as another chore or obligation. That's too stereotypical and lacks context to make it an accurate blanket statement but it's the common starting point.

Cell phone usage, social media and the cultural differences that differentiate 2017 from even 1987 (but we tend to measure before the 1960s which was the last major cultural shift) all define our modern sexual norms. The reality is, white, christian, heterosexual couples are in fact having less sex as compared to 30 years ago (and much less compared to 50 years ago) but I'd have to go dig up the studies / surveys on the topic for the numerical proof behind that.

While the fact is almost as many women as men do have affairs and affairs absolutely do complicate sexual relationships in otherwise monogamous unions, more often than not women are not having a side piece in marriages with children or that have been long term. Just because a woman is acting asexual or not having sex doesn't mean her needs are being met elsewhere. That's actually a very disingenuous thing to say. In fact, the opposite is usually true. As a defensive mechanism, a woman who is cheating is more likely to have more sex with her partner as a means to hide her infidelity. Not a 100% truth but it's more true than not. If, however, you were suddenly having a lot of sex and then instantly almost no sex, then yes, that might hold true. The proliferation of SSRIs have absolutely not helped. America's obesity epidemic has also not helped at all. Phubbing is in fact a thing and also contributes to it. If porn is involved and she's not into it, that also can turn women off, especially if there are body image issues on her part (men typically don't suffer from body issues other than penis size which is a very stupid thing to be insecure about).

 

Men frequently treat sex as a right of marriage and many women, especially after children, look as sex as another chore or obligation.

Can you elaborate on this statement at all. I believe it has been 100% true in mine life at certain points. HOW as men can we change what is deemed a CHORE to be more enjoyable and fulfilling again for our partner?

 

im still in a sexless 20+ year marraige. its horrible...

 

Most, *not all*, women go through some serious changes after pregnancy. Having never given birth or been pregnant, I cannot personally relate but anecdotally from girlfriends that have had kids and based on the mountains of research that has been done - kids fuck us women up. For vaginal births, you almost always have tearing. After you heal up, things can feel different. Sometimes it can be painful. For some odd reason, women frequently won't seek out a remedy and thus they turn sex into a obligatory chore to keep him happy, ignoring the fact that sex is a critical component of marriage and bonding. They instead put their focus into their baby. Which is biological and instinctual. Women have an innate instinct to care for their babies. While they are breastfeeding (if they do so) the prolactin (hormone) used to stimulate milk production also suppresses sex drive. Some women still have a strong sex drive post-partum but most do not.

It's compounded that sexual desire in women is most often "use it or lose it". And as we get older, that holds even more true. So if a women in her 30s or 40s goes through a lengthy dry spell, the truth is, she won't come out of that dry spell w/o her mentally wanting to do it. As a result, hormone levels associated with sex drop and it becomes a feedback loop. No sex equals less desire which means even less sex leading to almost zero desire, even during ovulation (assuming she's still in her child-bearing years). Personally, I encourage women that I meet with to masturbate at least once if not twice a week if they have a low sex drive. Seems counter-intuitive but it actually very beneficial. It helps restart their sex drive without the pressures of another partner in the mix. For those women that do take the advice seriously and follow-through, in 2-3 months they have returned to a very healthy sexual relationship with their spouses. Obviously there are other things at play in those cases but in the case of a pure sexual dysfunction related to desire, masturbation is an incredible "cure" for women.

Which goes to your last question, why is it a chore or obligation. Well, if she's a working mother, that's a double full-time job. Let's be honest, many men do not pick up equal amounts of work when it comes to raising a child. Some do but it's very slanted against women. Even for stay-at-home moms, it's a full time job and frequently the feedback is the male partners just "don't get it" regarding the amount of work and effort involved. So that's a turn-off. There's still the 1950s vision of a housewife as well that is fairly demeaning. But ultimately, the issue is that in a marriage, the effort drops. Again, anecdotal from my own practice but a mountain of evidence and reports that show it's consistent - the effort of both spouses dies off the longer you are married. As a result, the romance dies off. Doesn't mean you don't love each other but if you aren't taking her out for dates, meeting her emotional needs (because for most women, sex is tied to emotion and even moreso as we get older) and making it more than just sex, it tends to push women away from sex. It's a much more complicated thing I could write a huge post about but pretty much you get married and from there the courtship rituals die off but the expectation is that everything else remains the same. And that's just not how it works.

 

That’s a very good point.

 

@KatieColorado - If you don't want to feel like you're at work, then do not reply to this message.

Married for 46 years. Two 20-something kids, both self-sufficient and living miles away from us and each other. Wife and I have had sexual issues a few times, mostly my need (Yeah, I'll call it a need. It is a need that will not be ignored) for more sex, especially more sex initiated by my wife, not just consented to. When I communicated this to her instead of just stewing and brewing about it to myself, things improved, eventually, greatly.

Now with kids gone and partial retirement for both of us, we have sex with each other every day. Every day. I'm finding that this may be unusual and that surprises me. For us it is normal living. Sex never gets boring, it's always fun and satisfying.

There is a problem I have. I have oral sex with other men. I want to communicate this to her because I respect her and don't want to deceive her and I know I'll continue having oral sex with other men. It would be a huge relief to get this secret off my back. My concerns are:
- is this just about me feeling better?
- should I continue in secret, as is, and not burden her with this knowledge.
- is communicating this to her, fair to her?
- should well enough be left alone?
- should I feel obligated to 'fess up?

How should I go about determining what to do, if anything? Was going to make this a Private Message to you but thought that others may benefit from your advice, if you choose to give it.

 

I was about to ask what deems a marriage sexless than read up there sex 10 times or less a year. We normally have sex 2-3 times a day. Normally I give oral once to two times a day. Now of course there are days where it’s only sex twice and one blow job. And yes we have a day where we went that we didn’t have sex bc of whatever. Needless to say no sex for 2 days and I’m like hey what the fuck I feel neglected... I’m actaully not demanding, I’m more of a giver so I have no requirements of what my needs are. So if I was to go a month without sex we would already be in therapy

 

Let us know what happens in the second week of your marriage.

 

Been married over 4 year now just happened to Find a fellow freak lol

 

Sure you have.
And sure you are old enough to be on this forum.

 

Although he’s not as open as me I know we have plenty of years to get there and to explorers together. But seriously it’s been 2 days and I’m like wow what’s wrong with me but we’ve had stress and work shit money shit just life shit... but tonight I’m gonna break out my latex suit lol

 

36 sir over the hill and on my way down the other side lol

 

Just wana link up

 

Unpleasant marrage for a man lasts as long as he loves and cares. As soon as one stop that kinda shit he becomes a man and lord.It is the way I see. And I dont really suggest you folks take my point .

 

One more you guys dont look at a woman as a lovely helpless creature. Look at her as equal freind who you have to live with for quite a time.And try to win as much territory as you can, in order to be able to trade favours in a future. It is an endless chess party where only bad one wins