Temper, temper. I don't seem to remember using the words 'grow up and get serious'. what i referred to was the possibility that you are wasting your talent when you could do better. it was meant as a compliment. i'm sorry you didn't recieve it as such.

As for the novel form being dead, well, i'll not agree on that, and i suspect few other people would. There's nothing nicer than reading a great book - deliving into the pages, into the minds of the characters. Movies will never quite manage to copy books in that aspect.

And i must say, i found the part about me being angry surprising. here i thought i was rather happy-go-lucky with a strong streak of stubborn ass, so i was truly astonished to find out that i come across as angry. I assure you i'm far too lazy to hold grudges.

Whatever you do, please don't stop writing. unless you plan on writing twilight fan fiction, since we're discussing stephenie meyer. If the idea takes ever takes root, just... ignore it. like all other temptations, it too will eventually fade.

 

I cherise your friendship indeed and no amount of arguing shall change that... what good is a friendship between people who only nod and agree with each other's statements? That's like being friends with bad politicians. Plus, you know, i forgive you for the rant. You're entitled to your opininion, just like i am to mine. Besides, i fear this conversation is heading towards the "Is not!" "Is too!" "Is not!" "Is TOO!" end of the scale.

And the whole cannibal thing... yeah..... no. I'f im going to put any body parts in my mouth, you can be sure they'll still be uncooked and attatched to a living, breathing person (preferably male.) But good spot on that joke. i totally missed it.

 

lets remember and keep in mind that pedophiles are those who are sexually attracted to girls and or boys who are thirteen years and younger really.

 

AFAIK, what most jurisdictions identify as illegal is not the possession/distribution of words (unless there are special legal restrictions on you personally - i.e. sexual offense felon) but the possession/distribution of pictures/video. Words are simply that and do not carry any specific impelling force behind them but pictures have victims in front of the camera lens.

Another difference is that illegal does not mean pedo (prepubescent); that is the reason for the "STATUTORY" predicate for coitus involving minors or those in positions of subordination to their predators. The problem is, who is the predator in a situation where the minor is the one pursuing the encounter?

DaddyCum's Allison and the Primdales is a good example of how to handle this thorny issue and it develops one HELL of a lot of thorns for the children involved during the telling.
Do I recognize that once sexual activity has begun, they will not voluntarily turn back; yes.
Do I like seeing children have sex; no.
Do I like seeing them seduced into sex; HELL no!
Do I like seeing them coerced into sex; just kill the predator so that they cannot rape any more.
Protect them from exploitation as much as possible but that protection can only go so far. Children have a wonderful capability for exploration which can lead them into injury. Once injured, however, the primary concern should be caring for that injury and helping them to heal instead of creating a potential for more injury.
Once injured, they need care givers and teachers not judges and protectors. Once they become sexually active, they need love, support, and guidance instead of mental rape. Remember that if they have been seduced into sex then they have likely formed a bond with their predator; attempting to simply break that bond is a trauma in itself.
BTW - I once heard an interesting definition for that word - love : That condition where the well being of another person means as much to you as your own well being itself.
Love is not jealous; it is freely given.
Love is not possessive; it does not require reciprocity.
Love places no demands or restrictions on the object of that love.
Love wants to make the object of that love happy, satisfied, feel good.
Sounds kinda romantic, ya know?

Love is a decision which, when made honestly, is extremely hard to unmake. Lust is an easy choice to make and and simple to unmake.
If you don't believe me about love, try to prove me wrong. Just be prepared for the consequences - :-E (remember the inherent limitations on the hypothesis)

Back to the involvement of developing teens and using Allison and the Primdales as an example. In my opinion, the most powerful chapter of that story was not when Jeff was having sex with any of his many partners but when Brit ran away because of the torture that their father was imposing on her and Jeff and the way that Jeff reacted to that torture. They were not being taught with love but by dictate and emotions cannot be dealt with in that manner.

 

This is a extreme hardcore adult forum for fuck sake get over this shit and move on. If u dont like whats posted on this forum fuck off.The end. Stop replying this thread so it can just sink down.

 

But wait, didn't you just reply to this thread?
Oh forget it!

 

Nope. The novel form is dead. Publishers are going bankrupt by the hundreds per quarter; advances are down; bookstores are disappearing; people do not purchase books in the volumes that they once did; people do not read as they once did; and electronic media are not even beginning to make up for the loss. The populace has also been dumbed down. Here in the states, the adult best seller list is dominated by poorly written childrens' books (Hunger Games) and even more poorly written soft porn (Shades of Gray). The adults who are buying those books, for the most part, do not even realize that they are reading either books for children or soft porn, respectively, so they can hardly be expected to realize that they are also reading trash.

As for you, and your motivations for persisting with your inane nonsense: Please cut the crap. Who are you, really? Naw, forget it. As though I would ever get the bare semblance of an honest answer.

Goddamn it, I am so sick and tired of this sock shit. What am I even doing here? Oh, yeah, that's right. Leaving. But I'll be back. For more abuse from socks.

 

Are they?

2010 Book and E-Book Sales Data for the United States

by John Soares on February 16, 2011

39
inShare​

Freelance writers, book authors, and creators of information products should pay attention to book sales. The data for both print books and e-books tells us what consumers are paying for and gives indications of future trends, trends we can take advantage of.
2010 Sales Figures for Books and E-books

The Association of American Publishers provides monthly statistics on sales figures. The latest report includes information for all of 2010. Here’s the AAP press release:
AAP Publishers Report Strong Growth in Year-to-Year, Year-End Book Sales
$11.67 Billion Sales Mark +3.6 Percent Increase vs Calendar Year 2009,
December Sales Rise +2.4 Percent;
E-book Sales Continue to Break Records with +164.4 Percent Gains for 2010
New York, NY, February 16, 2011— US publishers’ book sales across all platforms increased +2.4 percent in December 2010 vs December 2009 and +3.6 percent for the full year vs 2009, it was reported today by the Association of American Publishers (AAP).
Virtually every book publishing category showed growth in one or both comparisons, with the phenomenal popularity of E-books continuing.
“As more formats have evolved and are served by the publishing community, consumers have more choices. These strong sales numbers reflect the efforts of AAP publishers and the response of book audiences,” said Tom Allen, President and CEO, AAP.
Among the highlights*:
• Total sales for December 2010 were strong, showing a +2.4 percent gain vs December 2009 ($1.58 Billion vs $1.54B).
• Total sales for calendar year 2010 also jumped +3.6 percent vs calendar year 2009 ($11.67B vs $11.25B)
• E-books grew a dramatic +164.8 percent in December 2010 vs the previous year ($49.5 Million vs $18.7M). In the AAP’s ninth year of tracking this category, E-books once again increased significantly on an annual basis, up +164.4 percent for 2010 vs 2009 ($441.3M vs $166.9M). E-book sales represented 8.32 percent of the trade book market in 2010 vs 3.20 percent the previous year. A chart tracking nine years of E-book sales is included below.
• Books on other digital platforms also experienced healthy sales growth. For December 2010, Downloaded Audio Books increased +56.7 percent to $8.9M and Physical Audio Books increased +34.5 percent to $15.8M. For the calendar year, Downloaded Audio Books sales rose by +38.8 percent to $81.9M (vs $59.0M in 2009), while Physical Audio Books fell 6.3 percent, at $137.3M for 2010 vs $146.5M for the previous year.
• Children’s book categories saw higher sales in December 2010 vs the year before: Children’s/Young Adults Paperbacks were up +4.5 percent (to $48.9M) and Hardcover Children’s/Young Adults grew +0.2 percent (to $59.7M). Year vs year sales of children’s books fell somewhat; the former decreased 5.7 percent (to $546.6M) and the latter declined 9.5 percent (to $694.3M).
• All three Adult book categories also showed gains vs December 2009: Adult Hardcover was up +23.1 percent (to $148.2M), Adult Paperback grew by +4.5 percent (to $127.6M) and Adult Mass Market rose by +14.6 percent (to $57.1M). The categories fell slightly for 2010 vs calendar year 2009 with Hardbacks sales at $1.57B vs $1.65B in 2009 (-5.1 percent); Paperbacks reaching $1.38B vs $1.41B in 2009 (-2.0 percent) and Mass Market at $673.5M for 2010 vs $718.9M (-6.3 percent).
• Educational book sales saw full year-to-year increases: Higher Education grew +7.8 percent in 2010 (to $4.58B) and K-12 Elementary/High School posted a +3.2 percent gain (to $3.59B). K-12 El/Hi also hit a +1.4 percent increase for December 2010 (to $147.0M) while Higher Education reached $890.2M for December (-3.6 percent).
• Sales of University Press Hardcover books decreased 8.2 percent in December (to $6.0M) with a 0.5 percent decline for 2010 ($57.8M). University Press Paperbacks grew for 2010 by +1.3 percent (to $61.6M) and fell 2.5 percent for December ($8.9M).
• Professional books sales increased +5.0 percent for 2010 over 2009 (to $812.9M); for December, they fell 3.5 percent (to $108.9M).
• Religious Books showed 0.5 percent decline for 2010 vs 2009 (at $585.4M) and -11.8 percent for December ($49.9M).
*All figures cited above are domestic net sales.
Analyzing the 2010 Book and E-Book Sales Data

The Print Book Isn’t Dead

Note that total sales of print books for 2010 was approximately the same as sales for 2009 when sales of e-books are subtracted. This shows that there is still strong demand for physical books.
E-Books Sales Show Strong Growth

Sales increased 164% to $441.3 million year over year. That’s a lot of money, and it shows that there’s potential for authors to make serious cash from e-book sales. And note that these figures are for sales from mainstream textbook publishers: they don’t take into account all the information product e-books sold by individual entrepreneurs from individual sites. This site and the products I sell are just one example, and there are tens of thousands of other writers selling their own e-books. (Note: see my post on why traditional publishers should pay a 50% royalty on e-books.)
Educational Textbook Sales Are Also Strong

I’m a freelance writer who creates supplements and ancillaries for college textbooks, so it’s good news for me and other freelance writers in the same niche. More sales of textbooks means more profits, which means more money to pay us.
Your Take?

What stands out for you in this data? How can you take advantage of these trends? Have you written books? Are you writing a book or an e-book right now? Share!


So there you go Clarice. surprise a seagull and pluck a stout feather from his nether regions, sharpen yon tip and inscribe upon the parchment those wondrous words of yours; confident now that the filthy lucre can indeed be a part, crass though it needs must be, of the rewards you can gain for your labors.

 

Hah! Nice!

You are not wrong. Of course not.

As a software architect by profession, I happen to make a pretty good living on books: in the non-fiction realm.

Now, to be clear, I am not saying that the book is dead; I am saying that the novel form is dead.

And even this statement must be qualified.

True, more novels are being published than ever before, if one considers e-platforms.

Similarly, there is more music being produced than ever before. Considering all platforms.

What I mean is that the business model is dead.

The business model is dead for music, in the sense that music has become a commodity. The profit model has gone out the window, and with it the incentive by major studios to provide quality and to promote quality work. Since the quality and promotion models have eroded, even the best artists seldom ever are given the wherewithal to attain superstar status. The big stadium acts are gone. Now, the surviving dregs of the music industry will of course spin that positively by saying that consumers now have "more choices." True. But the choices, by and large, suck. Sort of like satellite television: 600 channels, and nothing on.

The same thing has happened with the novel form.

Book quality is in the tank, because brick and mortar publishers are dying and can no longer afford editors. Writers are receiving smaller volume sales and lower compensation, despite the higher royalty model of the e-market, so authors have less incentive to invest time in producing quality work. Since anyone can e-publish, and since brick-and-mortars no longer impose themselves on writers and provide the essential service of peer review/vetting, the market has been glutted with hundreds of thousands of e-books per year. Yet, while we could look at this positively and say that we have more choices, the tradeoff is the same for novels that we are seeing for music and television: most of the choices are trash.

I know this sounds cynical and perhaps pessimistic. It is not. Lately on another thread I have been picking on Sue Collins for her Hunger Games series. I do not begrudge her success. I am simply pointing out the highly artificial and contrived confluence of stars that have been aligned on her work:

1. Adults buy, read and are challenged by childrens' books now without knowing the difference;
2. She struck it rich by tapping the public's thirst for the violent and the macabre;
3. Scholastic hit it exactly right by promoting a plotline that lampoons capitalism at the worst period of the mini-recession.
4. Scholastic struck a deal with Summit Pictures, which in turn pumped upwards of $50 million in marketing, in order to manufacture a contrived sensation.

In other words, the book is a contrived fad, a cherry-picked vehicle for the major motion picture and merchandising opportunity that Summit needed in order to follow up on the soon-to-close Twilight series. Which, in turn, is also a contrived fad derived from yet another childrens' book (okay, in that case young teen).

So, there are sensations. But readers do not choose them. Promoters choose them. And everything else-- everything else, almost without exception-- languishes.

And finally, dear God in heaven, look at the exceptions! Do they prove the rule, or what? The other mega-blockbuster? The other bookend, to go with Hunger Games on the volume bestseller lists? A trashy, atrociously written soft-porn fanfiction adaptation of Twilight.

That is what has become of the novel form. I stand by the word: dead.

 

you know, after your clarification, i unterstand your point. you certainly have a very valid one there. twilight is teenage angst crap. Fifty shades is even worse. I must admit i liked hunger games - I did not enjoy the writing style at all, but the story itself was good. it captured the same helplessness i i experience in my country - i'm part of the white minority in a mostly black country (and no, im NOT saying this to be a racist, i'm explaining why i can identify with HG. If you don't understand what i'm talking about, go google the situation in Zimbabwe for white farmers. Thats where my country is heading towards.) so yes, i think that with a different writer,hunger games might have been an enormous success. i think its high time Animal Farm and Lord of the flies is removed from any school-based curriculum and replaced with something new. it has the potential for that, though the heroine irritates me - she's just a victim of her circumstances. but there i go, drifting off again.

I do feel the need to point out (this is not an attack, please, just an opinion) that you are hardly choosing the best examples from modern literature to prove your point. I asume you've read Stieg Larsson's Girl with the Dragon Tattoo series? If you have, you will admit that there's brilliance in there. And what about John Grisham, Tess Gerritsen, Suzanne Brockmann, Stephen King, jK Rowling (yes, i know, Harry Potter proves your point about adults reading children's books, but i'll happily plead guilty to loving it). i love romantic stories - im not ashamed of it. i read susan elizabeth phillips and julia quinn and sophie kinsella and kristan higgins and nora roberts and i'm not ashamed of it. i agree that the level of litteracy has slowly been going in a different direction than the gut-wrenching, soul-crushing dramas the libraries of the world are peppered with, but i must admit that i'm grateful for this.

I don't count self-published e-books amongst the novel form when i defend it, because if your book was not good enogh for a publisher, it probably won't be good enough for the public either. The amount of people who enjoy reading are a minority compared to the world population, but they are a discerning lot who wants quality - and is willing to pay for it.

its the same as producing home made porn recorded by a cellphone camera in really bad light and expecting people to pay for it. it has its place, but don't make the mistake of thinking all porn are like that, or you're going to end up never watching porn. And yes, this is a metaphor for books. There are bad stuff out there, yes. but there is a hell of a lot of good stuff too.

 

Ok, look. you seem to be on the defence against an unlaunched, non-existing attack. I'm terribly sorry if i offeneded you by having the audacity to differ from you in my opinion. Please forgive me for that oversight.

As to who i am? the truth? Im a girl who wishes desperately to be sombody else, and yet at the same time i love being me. thats as true as it gets. i'm 24, a teacher from south africa, and i don't seem to have any special talents other than reading ridiculously fast. i'm not pretty. I'm not thin. i'm not good at drawing pretty pictures and identifying wines. I'm good at keeping to myself. I like to think i have a good sense of humor, but i believe everybody think that about themselves, so i might be completely off-target there. I am intelligent and witty and sharp-tongued when i'm not actually face-to-face with somebody. I'm no good at conflict and i'm socially akward outside my comfort zone. I didn't fit into any cliques at school, nor did i want to, particularly. My chances of meeting somebody who will love me desperately are slim to none, and im surprisingly fine with that. im too lazy and too much of an introvert to be good at relationships. I've only kissed a few guys, and never had sex with one. by choice, as much as a lack of opportunity.

I'm not sure who you thought i was, or what i was going to say, but there it is. I'm not even average by society's standards. If i was some hot babe, i would have been out having actual sex, rather than wrting about it. i know that i sound horribly poathetic, but i've long since stopped caring about people's opinions about me - i only care what about my opinion about myself, because while i can get away from people, there's no escaping myself. but like i say, i'm only average on the outside. I'm a mess of contradictions - LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE OUT THERE.

Really, feel free to insult me, or say something along the lines of 'this is a fucking waste of time, yadda yadda yadda, blah blah blah'... just know i'm too lazy to get upset by it. it's like,"oh, well."

 

For the last time...

Reading pedo porn stories and jerking off to them makes one a sick pedo fuck who is sexually attracted to little girls.

Why don't you sick fucks lust after the kind of females that normal people like me do?...

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Wasn't Shakespeare considered trash?
Charles Dickens?
Clarise,you realize how petty you sound?

 

Promises, promises.

So the fuck what? Why do you even care what other people think about while masturbating?

So we should all like them young looking?
She looks young but it's okay because you know she's 18.
Now I may write a story about a 9 year old girl having sex with her father, but it's okay because they don't fucking exist!

It's a pity that you don't have as much concern for the lives of the real young girls that you ogle instead of bitching about fictional characters.

 

There's no point arguing with Joe. His entire argument can be summed up as:

1. You're a pedo.
2. I'm not.
3. Ha ha! I'm better than you!
4. (Missing a step)
5. Therefore, pedo stories should be banned!

I'm still waiting for him to fill in #4.

 

...so... Stephie Meyer is Shakespeare?
...and..... Sue Collins is....Dickens?



Listen, I know I need all the help I can get, but, umm.... could you please not try quite so hard to prove my point?

 

You are so right. If you are talking like a writer you do need all the help you can get. If you are talking personally, your petty and victriolic tansy on popular young adult fiction shows you to be the untalented whiney hack that you are.
But
If it is an attempt to derail th thread it is well done.Y

 

Ohhhh, sheesh! Most of your barbs are dead-on, but I don't think I was petty. Wanna see petty?

Does Scotty luv Katniss? Or does Scotty luv Peeta?

Do you mind if I use "victriolic tansy" in my next story? Should I properly attribute it?

There. That's petty.

Sheesh, Scotsmitch. You're usually an okay dude. What the hell?

 

And in the red corner the New York Times best Seller List

So here it is from
Nuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu York

http://www.nytimes.com/best-sellers-books/2012-06-17/combined-print-and-e-book-fiction/list.html

This Week Last Week Combined Print & E-Book Fiction Weeks
on List 1
1 FIFTY SHADES OF GREY, by E. L. James. (Knopf Doubleday Publishing.) An inexperienced college student falls in love with a tortured man who has particular sexual tastes; the first book in a trilogy. 14




2
2 FIFTY SHADES DARKER, by E. L. James. (Knopf Doubleday Publishing.) Ana Steele learns more about Christian Grey’s troubled past; the second book in a trilogy. 14




3
3 FIFTY SHADES FREED, by E. L. James. (Knopf Doubleday Publishing.) The final book in an erotic trilogy. 13




4

THE STORM, by Clive Cussler and Graham Brown. (Penguin Group.) In the 10th NUMA Files novel, Kurt Austin and his team battle a plan to change the world’s weather. 1




5
4 FIFTY SHADES TRILOGY, by E. L. James. (Knopf Doubleday Publishing.) The three “Fifty Shades” novels in one bundle. 7




6
5 11TH HOUR, by James Patterson and Maxine Paetro. (Little, Brown & Company.) Detective Lindsay Boxer and the Women’s Murder Club investigate a possible serial killer. 4




7
7 ON THE ISLAND, by Tracey Garvis-Graves. (Tracey Garvis-Graves.) An English teacher and the teenage boy she has agreed to tutor are stranded on an island in the Indian Ocean. 8




8

A NIGHT LIKE THIS, by Julia Quinn. (HarperCollins Publishers.) Anne Wynter might not be who she says she is, but she’s managing quite well as a governess to three highborn young ladies — until she attracts the attention of a dashing earl. 1




9
6 STOLEN PREY, by John Sandford. (Penguin Group.) When a Minnesota family is murdered, the investigator Lucas Davenport believes a Mexican drug gang is involved. 3




10

RESCUE ME, by Rachel Gibson. (HarperCollins Publishers.) Everyone in Lovett, Tex., wants to see Sadie married. Could Vince, a former Navy SEALs member, be the one? 1




11
9 THE MARRIAGE BARGAIN, by Jennifer Probst. (Entangled Publishing.) A billionaire who needs a wife offers a one-year marriage in name only to a bookstore owner. 9




12
8 THE INNOCENT, by David Baldacci. (Grand Central Publishing.) A hit man who has become a target of the government rescues a teenage girl whose parents were murdered. 7




13

SUMMER DAYS, by Susan Mallery. (Harlequin.) In a land dispute in the town of Fool’s Gold, Rafe Stryker finds himself trapped in a place he vowed never to set foot in again. 1




14

BIG SKY COUNTRY, by Linda Lael Miller. (Harlequin.) Slade, a Montana sheriff, has suddenly inherited half of Whisper Creek Ranch. This doesn’t sit well with his half brother. 1




15
13 A GAME OF THRONES, by George R. R. Martin. (Random House Publishing.) In the frozen wastes to the north of Winterfell, sinister and supernatural forces are mustering. 32


Related Article

Also Selling

1. THE LAST BOYFRIEND, by Nora Roberts (Berkley)
2. SNATCHED, by Karin Slaughter (Random House Publishing)
3. ABRAHAM LINCOLN - VAMPIRE HUNTER, by Seth Grahame-Smith (Grand Central Publishing)
4. THE WITNESS, by Nora Roberts (Putnam)
5. THE LUCKY ONE, by Nicholas Sparks (Grand Central Publishing)
6. WITH OPEN EYES, by Iris Johansen (St. Martin's Press)
7. DEADLOCKED, by Charlaine Harris (Penguin Group)
8. BEAUTIFUL DISASTER, by Jamie McGuire (Jamie McGuire)
9. CALICO JOE, by John Grisham (Knopf Doubleday Publishing)
10. BARED TO YOU, by Sylvia Day (Sylvia Day)
11. EXPLOSIVE EIGHTEEN, by Janet Evanovich (Random House Publishing)
12. A STORM OF SWORDS, by George R. R. Martin (Random House Publishing)
13. A CLASH OF KINGS, by George R. R. Martin (Random House Publishing)
14. A DANCE WITH DRAGONS, by George R. R. Martin (Random House Publishing)
15. AGAINST THE SUN, by Kat Martin (Harlequin)
16. BRING UP THE BODIES, by Hilary Mantel (Holt)
17. TANGLE OF NEED, by Nalini Singh (Berkley)
18. A BLAZE OF GLORY, by Jeff Shaara (Random House Publishing)
19. THE GIRL WHO KICKED THE HORNET’S NEST, by Stieg Larsson (Knopf Doubleday Publishing)
20. DEFENDING JACOB, by William Landay (Delacorte Press)

There don't appear to be too many juvenile stories on this list Clarice.

Seriously adults who read get pretty picky about what's good enough for them and young adult fiction doesn't often make the grade.

I'm devouring Maeve Binchy at the moment just as a bye the bye.

I wouldn't get too wound up about the overall state of things, the old rule still applies; if its a good read it will sell.
:rose::rose:

 

I care because it proves that one is fucked up in the head. Any person who can fantasize about little kids in a sexual way has a very serious mental issue.

Little kids shouldn't even be thought of as fuck meat! They're little kids, asswipe! ​

Again the fictional nature of the stories ISN'T the issue. :wall:
Sexual attraction to little kids is the issue.

There's NO WAY that any person can seek after and jerk off to such stories and not have a sexual attraction to little kids.

There's a big ass difference between being sexually attracted to 18+ year olds who look like jailbait and being attracted to jailbait, idgit. ​