Have Heard That The Latest Toll Is 209

Will Keep Everyone Up To Date

 

Thanks for the update, GCrowe.

 

No Proplem Lioness

 

cheers bud

 

No Props Mate that is the latest death toll it could rise even more

 

We do have fires, but they wouldn't be nearly so bad if it weren't for man's stupidity. As the stupid white settlers came in, they began suppressing fire. Fire is a NATURAL occurance...Native Americans knew that and even used it to their advantage. When people began suppressing the fires, there was an extreme buildup of fuels (dead leaves, etc). When lightening (or a careless person's cigarette) hits those fuels, especially in California where they have trees that are explosively flammable, it is a recipe for disaster.

Not to mention the effects fire suppression had on habitats, it changed the very nature of the forests and other communities in the country. Some pine trees, for example, have cones that only open when a fire burns hot enough to melt the sticky resin gluing it shut. If there is no fire...those trees disappear and new ones invade the open space.

But I digress. These types of wildfires are natural, it is just unfortunate that it seems that the government there is not letting the firefighters do what they need to do to get the job done (ie, backburning). It is very sad.

 

And don't forget the 13 years of way below rainfall we've had so everything is dry as a bone. These fires can't be totally blamed on the lack of backburning. Since that horrific day on 7th feb there's still 3 fires that are burning out of control but because there's been favourable weather conditions they haven't been deadly. Though the strong winds and high temperatures are forecast for this week, with friday being the worst day.

Also one can't blame the government for for the lack of backburning. It's a combination of a whole lot of things. Unfortunately when something so tragic happens the bloody blame game starts.
Look at the massive floods that's happening in Northern Oz, there's some towns up there that has been inexcessible for 4 weeks, do we blame the government for letting people build thier houses on flood plains.

The only people who can be blamed for these fires are the firebugs who deliberately lit some of the fires. Other then that we have to look for the positives that can come out of this tragedy. Learn from the mistakes and minimize the chance of it ever happening again.

 

There's been a lot of discussion in this thread about the lack of backburning being one of the main reasons for the huge loss of life. So i've searched through my photos to show you what the aussie bush is like and how sometimes the idea of backburning is impossible.

In and around the town of Marysville where 100 people may have perished the ground cover is smaller tree-ferns and some very inexcessible bush, even on foot some parts are impossible to walk through. This is the nature of our bushland.

Then around the town of Kinglake the bushland is different, not as thick, but lots of houses built amonst the trees and when a fire is racing up a hill around a speed of 50 mph nothing much will stop it.
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Two Nice Photos There 69Magpie I will add another 3 photos of the fires

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Very true Tenguy. If we are going to live in the bush we need to be prepared.
The problem with Black Saturday was extreme temps and it has been dry for years. On that day winds of over 100k's an hour (60mph) with 40+ C temps , if a fire started , there was no way it could be stopped. Within 3 hours of the fire that burnt Kinglake, the fire was spotting 20 miles in front of its self.
In the photos above you Ten, there is a shot of 4 cars burnt. The really sad thing is if you could see on the left hand side of the road there is a house and a paddock around it that was not touched. The smoke and flame were that thick they didn't know which way to go. 10 metres to the left and they would have survived. I wish there was a shot of it. I saw it on TV and it just makes you cry.

 

I hope things are better for you IH and GC, as well as for all Aussies!
Stay strong!

 

[/quote]Interesting and informative photographs, thank you for posting them. Do the developers or authorities use fire breaks where there is development? In California, one of the problems is that people don't want them, they "spoil the view", wonder how nice the view was just before they perished.[/quote]

The people who live in towns like Marysville and Kinglake will never except a substancial firebreak around thier towns. This fire was one out the box and for instance a 200 yard firebreak wouldn't have made any difference as the ember attacks were spotting upto 2 miles in front of the fires. The people who live there know that there's always a chance of fire and you have to live with that.
These towns didn't start out as a deveolpment, they started around 1850-60 with 1 or 2 houses and grew from there as they become more popular and people desired to live in the tranquilaty of forests

If one has to lay blame then the questions should be asked to why the recommendations after The Ash Wednesday fires of 1983 were never taken up. Fire bunkers, better building practices, etc...They'll never stop houses burning down, but a lot of things can be done to stop loss of lifes.
Also in Victoria people can stay to protect thier properties, that's a bad law that needs to be changed.

The idea of having a clearing fire to promote regrowth might work in your Conifer and Fir plantations and it also promotes regrowth in most Eucalyptus varieties but when the Mountain Ash is substancially burnt then it dies as it's a Flowering Plant, a damned tall flowering plant, the tallest recorded at 132 metres or for you Americans 430 ft.

 

Managing forest fires: The path to sustainability

Article Date: 2004-09-01


For generations, the goal of forest fire suppression in Canada was based on a European model: fire was seen as bad and had to be prevented and controlled. Today, however, we understand that fire is a natural disturbance in forest ecosystems—a process that should be managed. A holistic approach to forest fire management considers that forest fires are integral to the health, structure and diversity of forest ecosystems. Foresters also increasingly recognize that small controlled fires result in new growth in the forests and reduce the likelihood of large, disastrous fires.
However, fires cannot be allowed to run their natural course when they threaten lives, property or resources. Canada has two levels of fire management—intensive and extensive. In the intensive zone, which includes communities, valuable timber and other values at risk, all fires are actively suppressed. In the extensive zone, forest fires are monitored and if they pose a threat to social or resource values, they may be suppressed. The key is to balance the costs and benefits of fire to help ensure the ecological, economic and social sustainability of our forests, the forest industry and forest-based communities.

We are concerned about fire prevention here too, maybe this(excerpt) will be of interest to people.

the full article >>

http://canadaforests.nrcan.gc.ca/articletopic/33

 

Here's an idea to prevent people from being killed in forest fires....ban them from living in the forests, all people are to live in the concrete jungles without exceptions. That'll fix it, the forests are for the trees and animals and the cities are for the people.

 

Somehow, while sitting here looking out my window at budding trees, this isn't too appealing to me.

However, every region of the world has it's own beneficial facets and it's innate dangers. We live in an area that is lush, hilly and abundant in fresh water, but we do get occasional hurricane induced storms and fairly frequent tornadoes. We build our building accordingly, storm shelter areas in residences and stronger structural componenets.

To isolate oneself from nature would be, IMO, the worse solution. Perhaps a combination of firebreaks, for the "normal" times and fire shelters for the unusual events.

The folks who stayed and perished are similar to the folks who stayed in New Orleans during hurricane Katrina.

 

Hold your breath Victoria...here comes another crappy day with the potential for the continuing fires to do freaky wind changes.
4 big fires are still burning out of control.

 

And Heard The Latest Toll Is 210 And Could Still Get Higher

 

Damn this is getting more ridiculous with each new day, why don't y'all come over here for a few weeks? It's not too cold and it is raining.

My thoughts are with you all.

 

Had to add

Death toll now at 210.... And i have been at them being a vol firee,,, hasnt been good