I am as far from a religous person as you will ever find. I certainly do not believe in god.

AA worked for me.

 

This is a porn forum. It's not really the best place for you unless you want to know the best method to introduce a girl to anal sex... I recommend this forum.

https://aaforum.org

 

I wasn't trying to imply that it never worked, but it would appear that there are programs out there that work better. And I will say that the only way I could be more familiar with the AA program is if I was an alcoholic myself.

-S-

 

Ditto - AA is a spiritual program, not a religious one. The distinction is vastly important, and not well understood outside the organization.

 

You ain't him ShakeZula and you need to be real fucking careful before you try and steer someone in trouble away from something that might save his life.

Notice what he said up there. He's been through secular treatment several times already and it hasn't worked for him.

This latest research really pisses me off and I'll tell you why. Everybody's trying to sell something and what you're citing here is the latest attempt to fill THEIR TREATMENT PROGRAMS. That's one of the problems with AA don't you know, its free.

There are several people on this thread that say the AA program worked for them and you can add me to that list and I think its pretty fucking reckless of you to come on here trying to promote you atheism at the likely expense of someone who's in trouble and is facing a life and death problem.

Especially when the higher power aspect of AA is just one of the elements of the program which is actually comprehensive and works extremely well. And here's why and how all the research on it fails. AA groups are everywhere. Millions of people walk in those doors for the first time everyday and millions of them are able to stop drinking because of it. There's no fucking way they can accurately account for those people in studies because they come and go anonymously in case you missed the point of Alcoholics Anonymous.

You need to watch that bullshit ShakeZula. I'll put up with your non-religious beliefs anywhere else but not here. This isn't debate ShakeZula its fucking life and death.

g

 

Yeah, you know what's funny... AA is so successful they don't release how successful they are.

http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-effectiveness.html

http://www.spiritualriver.com/what-is-the-success-rate-of-recovery-in-aa/

Millions, huh? You'd think that with millions of successes they'd talk about that just a little bit.

AA worked for you? Fantastic. Guess who it didn't work for: My father. He's relapsed so many times I've lost count. He admits that the program is a crock of shit but he does take comfort in being around other people who understand what he struggles with. He doesn't need AA for that, it's just a convenient place for him to find it. He's expressed interest in a more secular programs because he's sick of them shoving their own brand of Christianity down their throat. He bitches constantly about the people who go on and on about Jesus in his meetings to the point he's actually told them to shut up, if he wanted a sermon he'd go to mass. And this from a Christian. So who should I believe, Stumbler, you or him?

I'm well aware it's life and death. You know what I had the joy of doing the winter before last? On literally the coldest night of the year, single digits, I had to travel down to a hospital that was kicking my dad out of their treatment program because he was unmanageable, at 11pm at night. My step-mother showed up at my door as Leila, my son and I were getting ready to go to bed and asked me to come down with her to sign an affidavit to try and force the hospital to keep him because he couldn't go home as he was violent, couldn't come to my house because I had a newborn and literally had no one to take him in.

After dicking around with hospital staff, none of which wanted to claim the responsibility, filling out a two page affidavit and sitting in a waiting room for about 4 hours, I watched my father walk out of a hospital, stoned out of his mind because they hospital had doped him up so much, wearing nothing but hospital scrubs, an old pair of sneakers and a ratty second-hand coat they probably dug out of the lost and found. Snow had already started to fall and I lost sight of him as he crested a hill. He didn't even know who I was he was so high, he kept calling me by his brother's name.

Several hours later someone called the police after spotting what looked like a body laying just off Interstate 55 about 40 miles from the hospital. He'd lost consciousness and collapsed and nearly lost his toes from frost bite. I went home that night with the knowledge that I might have been the last person to see my father alive. I didn't know if by morning he'd be dead.

He was in AA when he relasped. So yes, lets all gather around and sing the praises of this miraculous program.

Do the programs mentioned in that article charge? So what. Most likely if one looks, there are free ones. The point is that there are alternatives that seem to work better than AA and don't force Jesus down your throat in the process. But you and I both know all that is really bullshit. An addict is not going to stop until they really want to. You can't force recovery. Whatever the OP's reason for drinking is, he still has it. He might want to stop on the surface, but an addict almost never stops until they hit rock bottom.

So I see your bullshit and I raise you a kiss my ass.

-S-

 

Well I can see right off you're bullshitting about knowing the first thing about AA if you expect them to keep records, give statistics or even comment on the program outside the program because one to the the foundations of it is to keep all politics, all commercialism, and all controversy out of the program. It ain't about the program its about the individual and its about lay people ShakeZula helping each other because in most cases everything has FAILED to help them.

And so now you're going to come on here with your own prejudices and sad story and try to combine them and inflict them on someone reaching out for help. You're going to sit there and try to tell us our personal experiences don't count but your experience with you daddy does.

Your dad's never been to treatment ShakeZula is that what you're telling me? Maybe you should try that. But if he has and it hasn't worked then it's bullshit on your part to try and claim the AA is what not's working if treatment didn't either.

And tell your daddy to stop his bitching and complaining and get out of that AA group that's pushing religion. There are numerous AA groups ShakeZuala including ones for Atheists.

And you even be twice as careful about letting your bitterness over your personal experiences get pushed off on other people.

 

It's not a sob story, you should know me better than that. It is the simple truth. He's been in treatment facilities all over the state and going back as far as I can remember. My mother would tell me that when they were together, some genius has put an AA meeting hall right next to a bar. Half the people in there would go from the meeting to the bar once it was finished, him included. Obviously not much success in that group. None of it really mattered until he was ready to stop.

Tell me, if there are no statistics, where are you getting these "millions" of people that have had success? Pulling it out of your ass? Yeah, that's what I thought. I have my prejudices, you have yours. You voice yours but I can't voice mine? When did this happen? The OP wanted advice, I gave it. You didn't like that advice so you try to jump down my throat. On what grounds? That someone dares to mention an alternative to AA that won't preach to you? My god, the horror!!!

And no, I'm not telling you your experiences don't count, I'm telling you that my experience is just as valid as yours. I didn't say anything inflammatory to the OP, nothing out of line and the programs that the article mentioned don't preach atheism, they just don't preach faith. Does that bother you for some reason?

And seeing as how one of the first things you have to do in AA is give yourself over to a higher power, I doubt there is an actual atheist AA group. It would undermine the program a little bit if that were the case. If AA is really a spiritual group as prtndr says and not Christian, my father was perfectly within his rights to tell those that sought to proselytize to can it.

-S-

 

P fucking S

If I was the only one on this thread that said AA worked for them you might have a point but since I ain't you don't/

Sure sounded like one to me and I failed to see one substantiated point in the whole post that wasn't based on emotion and anecdotal experience.

As far as an AA meeting right next to a bar its a damn good idea. If they can't walk out of the AA meeting and not go into the bar then they're not ready to quit drinking yet now are they.

There's alcohol everywhere and one thing an alcoholic figures out is since that's the case its up to them to resist it not up to the world to hide it from them.

Tell you what ShakeZula you do the math. There's an AA group in every little town, several of them in any moderate sized town, one or more in every neighbor hood all over the world. There's millions of AA groups ShakeZula so the math is pretty fucking simple.

You ain't thinking.

Bull Fucking Shit ShakeZula. You deliberately tried to discourage him from going to AA because of your own fundamental Atheism which you have to drag into everything and because your dad hasn't managed to quit drinking. And some people never do. But even in those instances AA gives them at least some periods of sobriety.

And where's that fucking alternative you're talking about there ShakeZula. I sure as fuck didn't see no alternative you offered. You just said if you were him you wouldn't go to AA which is why I said you ain't him.

Most of the rest of us are talking about something he can do this second all he has to do is pick up the phone and call.

As I said above if it was just me offering my experiences against yours you'd have a point but since it isn't you don't. You've got numerous people on this thread willing to share their personal experiences of what worked and only you trying to say we're all full of shit.

And what the fuck makes you think AA preaches faith and religion. You don't know the first thing about if you think it does. If your daddy got around a bunch of Jesus Freaks he should have found a new group because the AA program even warns about excessive religious experiences and conversions as being false hope and a sure sign of someone who's going to slip.

So no the fact the TREATMENT PROGRAMS (and let's keep that straight Shake because that is what they are promoting) don't use faith as an element doesn't bother me at all any more than the ATHEIST AA groups bother me.

See I told you that you don't know shit about the AA program. There are lots of secular and atheist AA groups that just skip the step to the higher power. So again before you go telling someone to skip something that might save their life you ought to at least know what the fuck you're talking about.

What you don't get is anyone can form an AA group. There is not organization, no hierarchy, no set rules, and only individuals coming together to work on their common problem. Its not what you're trying to make it out to be.

I'm a perfect example of that. I never went to an AA meeting in my life. I found everything I needed right there in what they call the Little Red Book and just followed the steps which as I said are comprehensive and address all aspects of addiction not just God will do it for you.

But for millions of people ShakeZula the support and help and guidance they get from the group is the only thing what will save them and before you tell people to just skip that you should know what you're talking about and you don't.

But I'll tell you straight up ShakeZula with your family history and a couple of things I've seen so far you may get your chance someday to personally find out what works and what doesn't.

 

So you've got a few. I could just as easily find several people that AA failed to help. It's not the program, it's the individual.

The point that you fail to miss is that I have been neck deep in addiction since the day I was born. There are addicts on both my mother and father's side. I'm one of the very few that has escaped it. I know what I'm talking about.

Exactly my point. Recovery only happens when the addict decides it's time.

What math, Stumbler? There are no statistics, remember? You yourself said that. Your millions are meaningless because it's a made up number. Is it one million or 100 million? That's a pretty big difference. Millions of AA groups? Really? Link or GTFO.

I said, in not so many words, that if I were in his position, knowing what I know about alternatives that WORK at least as good as AA but indications are that they work BETTER, I would use those, not AA. But because that source came from a secular source, you got a bug up your ass. You haven't attacked the crediblity of those programs I mentioned, unlike I have done with AA, you've merely attacked me, accusing me of pushing some agenda. How very Baller-esque of you.

Tell me, if the programs that don't push religion are shown to at least be as effective as AA, why shouldn't he consider it? Can you give me a good reason besides your own bias? He wants advice, he's willing to do whatever it takes. Shouldn't he be made aware of all the information that's available to him?

Kansas City is the largest city in Missouri. Are you so sure that some type of secular recovery program is not available to him? Pulling shit out of your ass, once again.

I said that? Really? Where? Because if I recall, all I did was provide a link to an alternative to AA. As a matter of fact, I'm pretty sure I even congratulated you (and by proxy, all the others in this thread who found success there) on that success. No where did I belittle your experience or theirs.

What makes me think they preach faith? I don't know, maybe the prayers that open and close the meetings in both AA, Al-Anon and Al-Ateen. All specifically Christian, mind you, not some generic prayer to a higher power of your own understanding. All of them asking their lord Jesus Christ for strength, etc. etc. Seems pretty sectarian to me. If there's no structure to these meetings in an organizational sense, who is there to enforce their mandate of no excessive reilgious experience? No one maybe except the people that go there, it would seem. I mean, if anyone can start one it would mean that anyone can do what the hell they want since they don't have to answer to a higher authority within the organization. If AA warns about excessive religiousity within the meetings then they must think it's bad so why shouldn't my dad or anyone else speak out against it?

If secular programs are fine then you should have no problem with me bringing them up. However, they must because you exploded at me for even mentioning it. The article I quoted in my OP did not disparage AA, merely said that it might not be as effective as some would have us believe and there are alternatives available if one desires to seek it out. This pissed you off something feirce so you must have a problem with it somewhere.

If the evidence is correct then the programs I mentioned are even more likely to save his life than AA. You should be thankful that I brought it up if his life is such a concern to you. Instead you only want him to hear about your way and attack me for mentioning something different. Let's be clear here: You didn't attack the effectiveness of the program, you attacked me. You are showing extreme predjudice.

Never went to a meeting in your life? Funny, I've been to several in mine. AA, Al-Anon and Al-Ateen. It would appear that I know more about how those meetings function on the ground than you do. That means your entire diatribe has all been pulled from your ass. You do realize what a jack-ass this makes you out to be now, right?

I don't? Funny, because I do believe that you just admitted that you don't know what you're talking about. After all, you've NEVER BEEN TO A MEETING!

You think I'm in line to become an addict? I don't even drink soda on a regular basis. I've never smoked a cigarrette and never had more than a sip of coffee. I'm addicted to no foreign substance. I drank almost every weekend in Korea and never once was it a complusion. When it was time to come home to be with Leila I went several months without drinking a drop and never once did I crave it. That doesn't mean I won't get drunk but it's always a conscious choice. I always decide whether I will or won't drink and I always stop when I've had enough. I will never see the inside of a recovery program.

-S-

 

Oh, and by the way, my father is sober now because he decided it was time. Who knows whether it will stick or not.

-S-

 

I'm going to simplify this right now ShakeZula because I feel strongly enough about this individual trying to reach out for some help and advice that I'm not willing to cloud it up with one of our extended debates. It ain't about us its about him.

Hey mopornlvr if I was you I'd pick up the phone and call AA. The program worked for me.

 

Wise decision. The first smart thing you've said since you entered this thread, in fact.

-S-

 

YO! muhfuckas! wine is fine but whiskey's quicker, muhfuckin suicide is muhfuckin slow wit dat muhfuckin liquor! drink up biatches!

 

Dry and hoping to stay that way.

I haven't had a drink since my last post. It's only 4 days, but that seems like a long time right now. I had a family emergency the next morning, and even though it turned out to be nothing, I realized I had people that still thought I was someone they could count on in a pinch. For some reason, that stuck, and I made that my "higher power". I can't say I will never drink again, but I don't want to, so I wake up in the morning and tell myself that.

By the way, my aunt is gonna be fine. She is full-blooded Irish, and she hates anyone that drinks. (Which may be why nobody in my family, except grandma, can stand her, but she's family 'til the end!) Just thought I'd add that since there seemed to be a bit of a battle about the Scotch-Irish thing.

God bless all of you that sent me well wishes and good advice. This may be a porn site, but sometimes the ability to ask questions without anyone knowing your true identity is nice.

 

Good luck...and best wishes.

 

Congratulations!! That is something to celebrate! You just have to take it a day at a time.

I'm half Irish and I've never really been a drinker.

Even though this is a porn site and a different type of little community, we still have lives and struggle with different things. There is a lot of caring that does go on!!

Thanks for letting us know how you're doing and glad to hear that your aunt is going to be OK.

 

View attachment ​

 

So, alcoholism isn't your problem? Then, what is it?

 

mopornivr,

A number of years ago I watched a movie about an alcoholic entitled, "Lost Weekend." It had a memorable line, "For you one's too much, and twelve's not enough."

That is what you need to remember. For you there cannot be "just a few drinks." A few will lead to a few more, and more after that. When you are tempted to take "just one drink," do not think of how good the first several feel. Do not think about the enjoyable experiences you had with alcohol when you were younger and it was not a problem. Think how you will feel the next day, and of the problems you might have.

I'm glad you dropped by. There are caring people here.