At what point do the children taken from their parents at the border matter? Being pro-life means you have to care about all life, not just the unborn or those in your "tribe"!

 

That’s a distraction to the topic at hand, we are not systematically terminating the lives of the children of immigrants.

 

I think a lax abortion law allows people to be Cavalier with there sex lives and stupidity isn't taken into account. I support women saying no up till the second trimester for what ever reason and then special medical circumstances there after.

 

Think about the numbers as to why these services should not be restricted to "rape", most rapes and overall sexual assaults including incest, molestation, rape, and even when a condom is removed without the woman's knowledge are rarely ever reported and even when they are reported the chance of arrest is 46 out of 1000 reports, referral for charges is 9 of 1000, 5 of 1000 will ever face felony charges, and of that same 1000 reports only 4.6 of these animals will ever spend time in prison. That is on top of the fact that only about 230 rapes are ever reported out of every 1000 that happen.
Courts refuse to hear rape cases in cases where the condom was removed without knowledge because the lawyers just say that she was willing so everything that happened was consensual, the defense makes the victims relive the violation over and over and over by forcing them to be overly graphic in their testimony about what happened, every tiny detail including what underwear she was wearing, step by step of what he did re-traumatizing her again and this time in public. Unless there is complete knowledge on both parties that the intent is to create a child then the choice is hers alone.

 

My opinion is that what happens in a place I do not live is none of my business. This country was built on state's rights. It's okay for there to be places that have laws I don't agree with so long as they are not genuinely inhumane (like Jim Crow and slavery or the other laws that genuinely oppressed people). Not everything has to be the same everywhere. Nobody is forcing anybody to live in any of these states.

My only opinion about abortion is that I dislike the way so many seem to use it as a form of birth control. Wear a fucking condom, guys. Not that difficult. Yes they can break but that's a lot less likely than getting her pregnant when never wearing one.

Oh, and people throw around words like fascism way too loosely these days. You better pray that you never experience the real thing.

 

Anon de plume, I can see that you are very emotional but you’ve answered my question with every answer but the one I’ve asked for. At what point does the child a woman is carrying have value as a human being? Saying fuck you to me and delving into issues of racism into immigration policies are non sequiturs to the subject of this thread. Ad hominems are not arguments. Please try again.

 

Please look at the date of that decision. Four years before Roe vs Wade. An appellate court in California does not outrank the United States Supreme Court which made a masterful decision in 1973 which protected both women and prenatal life.

 

The term fetal rights came into wide usage following the landmark 1973 Abortion case roe v. wade, 410 U.S. 113, 93 S. Ct.705, 35 L. Ed. 2d 147. In that case, the Supreme Court ruled that a woman has a constitutionally guaranteed unqualified right to abortion in the first trimester of her pregnancy. She also has a right to terminate a pregnancy in the second trimester,although the state may limit that right when the procedure poses a health risk to the mother that is greater than the risk of carrying the fetus to term. In making its decision, the Court ruled that a fetus is not a person under the terms of theFourteenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. However, the Court also maintained that the state has an interest in protecting the life of a fetus after viability—that is, after the point at which the fetus is capable of living outside the womb. As a result, states were permitted to outlaw abortion in the third trimester of pregnancy except when the procedure is necessary to preserve the life of the mother.
That is based on Roe V. Wade and is the very set of laws that are laid out by the supreme court as to abortion rights. When the fetus is viable out side of the womb, either by natural birth or by cesarean section can be pronounced as alive without need of life support methods.

 

Obviously my reading of the Roe decision is very different from yours. Are you saying that a woman should be allowed to have an abortion up to the very moment that the fetus becomes viable outside of a woman’s body? And how can that moment be determined with any level of certainty?

 

And why is it so burdensome to ask a woman to make the decision to abort in the first trimester? It seems like if she does not want to carry a baby she would want to abort it as soon as possible.

 

The actual number is 1.3% of total services provided are after the 20 week mark and most providers will refuse unless there is a threat of imminent death or permanent injury. The numbers of abortions have decreased every single year since the decision that is Roe V. Wade, that came along with better women's health education, access to birth control methods. 34.2% of all abortions preformed in the US are done in the first 6 weeks, 17.8% in week 7, 13.3% at 8 weeks and the numbers continue to drop from there until weeks 14-15 where it jumps back to 3.5%.
This entire diatribe of bullshit that is being used to stop a woman from doing what she is CONSTITUTIONALLY guaranteed to be able to decide for herself.
The reasons for abortions are as varied as are the communities that the people live in, in some areas yes it is being used more as a form of birth control but so is suicide.
In many cases a victim of rape will never report it and they have every reason not to report it when only 4.6 convicted rapists out of 1000 will ever see a cell.

 

I’ve asked you two questions and you have answered neither of them.

 

On second look I’ve asked you three questions which you have ignored.

 

And why is it so burdensome to ask a woman to make the decision to abort in the first trimester? It seems like if she does not want to carry a baby she would want to abort it as soon as possible.

Obviously my reading of the Roe decision is very different from yours. Are you saying that a woman should be allowed to have an abortion up to the very moment that the fetus becomes viable outside of a woman’s body? And how can that moment be determined with any level of certainty?
I am saying there is a law in place that gives the guide line, learn how to read it.

Not every woman knows that she is pregnant the moment it happens, for some they do not know for several months, some refuse to accept that their rapist got them pregnant, and many many more are so ashamed of what happened that they hide it at all costs. Now go back to your anti-choice forums and continue to spew your lines to the people that believe it.

 

Let’s pretend that I accept whatever it is you’ve cut and pasted from whatever source you like. Humor me and answer at what point a woman should be able to have an abortion. The Dred Scott decision was settled law at one point but it didn’t make slavery right. Your insults and anger don’t impress me. Tell me what you think is right. Should a woman be able to abort all the way until her baby is viable? Why don’t you want to answer this? Look at it as sophistry.

 

I’ve made it very clear that I am a firm supporter of Roe. To call me anti choice just doesn’t make any sense.

 

I’m exasperated. Should a woman have the right to terminate a pregnancy all the way up until the baby is viable??? I don’t care how rare this is or what you believe the law to be but barring substantial threats to the mothers health should this be allowed? Why won’t you answer this??

 

Saying it’s the woman’s choice over and over again is starting to sound like an incantation. Obviously, a woman would not be able to choose to have an abortion 5 minutes before delivery. Should she be able to make that choice when the baby is 5 minutes after viable without her body? And how can we know for sure when that is?

 

You have not answered me and you know it.