The problem with that is that there would be way too many votes to make! With one poll, you have one decision to make: what's your favorite? With the other option, it's like playing Roger Ebert and giving every story 1-5 stars.

I, personally, never vote in CAW, simply because I think it's unfair to vote if I haven't read every story, and I never get around to reading every story.

With so many entries, I also don't expect to win, or even receive a single vote.

I do it because it's a fun activity and it's a great way to be active in the writing community. I entered a recent CAW on a whim, and it helped me get back into writing erotica, which I had put away for years.

CAW, to me, is just a great way to get people writing, reading, and interested in the sex stories section of the forums and of xnxx. That's all it ultimately should be for. Apart from Forum Games (which is a fairly new subforum), Sex Stories has the fewest threads in it, and is generally the slowest section of all. Getting readers and writers hyped up and happy and participating more is the best thing we can do to increase the prominence of our little slice of heaven.

Let's not make CAW overly bureaucratic, or overly stressful for anyone involved. ejls just said she needs a break before the next one. If anything, the winner should be ecstatic and pumped and ready for round 2!

As a game designer, I think about this like my own projects: when a game is complete, I get a short time off to relax, but I am incredibly excited that my project is complete and people are playing it, and the adrenaline I get from knowing people are enjoying my work makes me eager to start the next. CAW should do the same for writers.

If it's getting too stressful for everyone involved (or for anyone at all) maybe it's best to completely rethink the contest. Go back to the roots, figure out what made it great, and start fresh. Maybe make some major tweaks that changes everything. Ask questions about the way things are done: maybe a panel of judges should decide the winner; maybe the number of entries should be limited; maybe the timeframe should be far shorter, or far longer. There are tons of ways this contest can go, and we shouldn't be feeling like anything is carved in stone. If you fall on stone, it hurts! If you fall on dirt, it hurts... um, less... well, sucky analogy, but you get the point

Let's pause and carefully consider why CAW has become so unwieldy. See the forest first.

 

A compromise between the "One person one vote" method and the "Rate every story" method could be to give each voter 3 votes, i.e. they list their top 3 favorite stories in order. The benefit is that it allows "Everybody likes it but it's nobody's favorite" stories to compete against "Some people loved it, some people hated it" stories. 1st place gets 3 points, 2nd place gets 2 points, 3rd place gets 1 point.

An example:

There are 7 stories entered in the contest. There are 3 voters.

Voter 1's vote:

1: My Daddy is Hung Like a Horse (3 pts)
2: Summer Camp for Perverts (2 pts)
3: Dildoes are a Girl's Best Friend (1 pt)

Voter 2's vote:

1: Granny's Knickers (3 pts)
2: Summer Camp for Perverts (2 pts)
3: My First Time with a Crustacean (1 pt)

Voter 3's vote:

1. Me, My Sister, My Sister's Friend, and My Sister's Friend's Father's Girlfriend's Next Door Neighbor's Maid's Younger Sister (3 pts)
2. Blow Up Dolls Are Best (2 pts)
3. Summer Camp for Perverts (1 pt)

In a "1 person 1 vote" system, Summer Camp for Perverts would get 0 votes despite appealing to all the voters. In this system, its broad appeal nets it 5 votes, enough to win the contest.

I'm not necessarily suggesting this is the best way to manage the votes; I'm just throwing it out as an idea.

 

1) There is no prefect system so if you are looking for perfection, keep looking.

2) The system I suggested is tested and used in many contest.

3) Using your example in the one vote per story system we use now, if you get 80 of your friends to vote for you and the good story only gets 30 votes. You still win but this time by 50 votes. How is that any better.

Let's have a more realistic scenario but on a small scale. Let's say we have 3 stories and 80 voters.
.
Mr. A writes a mediocre story but he has 30 friends that will vote for him.
Mr. B writes a good story and he has 20 friends that will vote for him.
Mr. C writes the best story but only has 10 friends that will vote for him.
Let us add 20 uncommitted voters that will vote for the quality of the stories. Let us also assume that the committed votes will vote for the quality of the stories after they vote for their friend.

Mr.A, (mediocre story) gets 30 friends to vote 5 points for his story but they give a 4 point vote for the best story and a 3 point vote for the Good story.

Mr. B (the good story) is next most popular and gets 20 of his friends to vote for his story but they give a 4 point vote for the best story and a 3 point vote for the mediocre story.

Mr. C, (the best story) only gets 10 friends to vote for his story and they give a 4 point vote for the good story and 3 points for the mediocre.

Finally we have 20 uncommitted votes who vote 5 points for the best story, 4 points for the good story and 3 points for the mediocre story.

The results are:

Mr. A (mediocre story) gets 30 x 5 = 150 and 20 x 3 = 60 and 10 x 3 = 30 and 20 x 3 = 60 for a total of 300 points.

Mr. B (Good story) gets 20 x 5 = 100 and 30 x 3 =90 and 10 x 4 = 40, and 20 x 4 = 80 for a total of 310 points.

Mr. C (best story) gets 10 x 5 = 50, plus 30 x 4 = 120, plus 20 x 4 = 80, plus 20 x 5 = 100 for a total of 450

As you can see, even with 30 committed voters, Mr. A with the mediocre story still comes in third. The best story with only 10 committed votes runs away with the vote and beats the mediocre story by 150 points.

HD

 

Personally, I think these two titles should win some sort of prize. :excited: I'm looking forward to the next challenge and want to try to submit something. I've read this thread with interest.

 

I think the first one might have limited appeal, but I've been wrong before. Yes, Forever Whatever. Write a story. The more the merrier.

@ Hardrive: I've been struggling with mathematical examples too. Theoretically, it would be possible for a story that totally sucks to win, with enough campaigning (vote for me and I'll cam with you! or some such shit). Your math is sound, and you're probably right about how it would go. Maybe I'm just a cynic, but we HAVE seen some scullduggery in the past. There's no point in creating another way to fuck with the voting, IMHO.

I'm going to vote for going with the K.I.S.S. principle on voting. One pair of hands (not one "member", since we've seen how that can go), one story, one vote.

 

If you have one poll for each story, and the reader votes for each story as he reads them, then this will give a huge advantage to the stories which are listed high up on the list of story links.

Most people are going to begin reading, starting with the first story on the list and then work their way down.

Lots of people never finish reading all the stories for many different reasons. Maybe they're slow readers, life interupts, they get caught by their girlfriend or boss and have to leave for a while, or they grow tired of it all and return to reading stories that are within their favorite genre.

This will give the stories on the top of the list many more votes and it will give the story at the bottom of the list exposure to only the most dedicated readers.

 

I have to say I prefer the one vote (not the one vote for every account I have). I also like the idea of keeping the ballots private till the end besides the ones that say who they voted for. I also believe 9 days is more than enough time to vote.

 

Hardrives Suggestion

I still like it as he has suggested. Horse suggests an inferior story might win under that system.With respect the current system whereby one writes a story then goes all out to market the thing means that the same thing can happen now.

The reality is that every story will not get read, most will get skim or part skim read and only a few have a chance of winning.

My point wasn't to stop this it was to let the "also runs" at least have some "me" time.

Under hardrive's system,yes the more people who read a story the more votes it will get and the better its chance of winning.

If we wanted the contest to be decided on the pure merits of the stories relative to each other then they would be listed without acknowledgement to their creator and once polling had closed the winner would be announced. Anyone want that?

For all that I can't see anything changing, one vote per brain is fair and infinitely more rewarding for the lucky recipient than an aggregate score- the first thing that would happen is total votes received would be divided by number of voters and the average used to assert who's story was of the higher quality. Potentially another spat.

Whatever, if vote time is nine days so be it; any one entering knows that and they just have to put their big boy pants on and cross off nine sleeps till they know how they done.

 

I think you mentioned earlier that "winning" shouldn't be the big deal it seems to have become. If you did, you're right.

However, apparently not everyone feels that way. I've played with the math a few times now, trying to come up with a voting system I could't beat. I wanted a system where a story like Emerson's fondly remembered, "gloop gloop i smell ur poop" example from a while back couldn't win, or at least steal a hell of votes from slightly better written entries.

I gave up.

1 brain = 1 entry = 1 vote. Simple.

Think of the nine days as REALLY extended foreplay.

 

I think "winning" can depend on what you want to achieve; if just entering as tory is way over your comfort zone then doing that is winning; if hoping to finish ,say, in the top half is your goal then achieving that is a win and so on.

Its sad, I think, if members don't vote because the story they like most couldn't win. No, it couldn't but one more vote for someone with two, that's a high five moment when he logs in and sees it.

Having said that its meant as a contest and people want to win it. The forum offers the possibility that some members can use socks to write stories and to vote for their own and that patently isn't fair and I agree entirely with any changes aimed at leveling the playing field in that regard.

My hope is that we just go back to a poll; we had 9 with no voting problems and all hell broke loose on Number ten.

Why not try a poll with everyone aware of the new rules on account of they will be on the Post setting out what CAW11 will be.

 

One thing that needs a little discussion but hasn't been covered much yet is the disclosure/non-disclosure of votes. Two options:

Fred - 13 votes
Sally - 11 votes
Joe - 8 votes
etc. all the way down to
Eggbert - 0 votes

or

Fred - 13 votes (wantsomefun, wantmorefun, wantslotsoffun, neverhasfun, wisheshehadmorefun, doesntknowthemeaningoffun, hasfunwithyoursister, hasfunwithyourgreatgrandmother, hasfunwithyourcrustacean, hasfunwithyourtwingreatgrandmothers, gaveacrustaceananstd, hasfilmtoproveallofthis, seethefilmateleven)

Sally - 11 votes (ahorsewithnoname, ahorsewithtwonames, ahorsesasswithnoname, awhorsewithnoname, awhorewithnoname, whoneedsaneffinnameanyway, hunglikeahorse, thebullshitisrollinginnow, hunglikeapeanutthen, youaregettingwarmer, bitemypeanuthorse)

There's pros and cons for each way. If whom you vote for is NOT disclosed publicly, then there really is free voting...in other words, if you'd like to vote for such and such a story, but, you feel some obligation to vote for a different story because your friend wrote it, or because the person is new, or because no one ever votes for his/her/its stories, or because the sneaky bastard wrote about you in the story, or any of a number of reasons, then you will be really freed because the votes will not be disclosed.

Rest assured, if this is the preferred method, the HOST will *not* be the only one seeing the votes or having access, so, don't worry about the HOST cheating...it can't happen under the new system of how votes will come in and be tabulated. So don't let that deter you from liking this option.

On the other hand, some people may WANT to see who voted for them, want to be able to thank those people, and so on. Of course, there will be leaks, not from the way the votes are counted or anything like that, but, people can and will say how they voted in the Forum and that can't be (and shouldn't be) avoided. Just pointing that out.

So...debate the merits of disclosure or non-disclosure. I stand neutral on this and am fine going either way.

 

Voting

Its a good question but aren't we all big enough to cope with someone we might be friends with deciding to vote on someone else's story?

We're not going to go all bitchy and cold shoulder the insensitive, uncaring, disloyal prick even though we voted for his story last time are we?

Oh.

Any hoo (sorry ELP) its just a buzz to see who voted for you, especially if you get one of the Forum heavy weights plonking a vote down on your story so I am in favor of open voting.

 

I'm for whatever the majority wants. These new ideas sound good and I (for one) can hardly wait for CAW11.

 

Can i offer an opinion, from a non writer and a bit of an outsider in here, I think the above is the best way to vote.

although it maybe doesn't stop someone telling another person they voted for them either on the forum or by PM. but you'd never be able to stop that no matter which way the voting was done.

offering an idea here, not for this contest but maybe for a future one.
how about a contest that the story writers are not allowed to vote. non writers voting only. i know that writers are probably the best judges of stories but by having voting like i suggested you'd see just what others thought about your stories for a change.

could also make it, voters must have been members for more than 6 months and made over 100 posts to help deter sock votes.

Tell me to mind my own business, i don't mind, but at least you'll have read my ideas so it wasn't a waste of my time. :excited:

 

#7) Because polls cannot be modified, the votes will be manually tallied by the OP. A member will vote by sending a pm with his/her selection to the CAW host. The Previous CAW Host will also track the voting, and compare those numbers before the winning entry is announced. That person's name should be announced and they should be copied on the pm'd vote. The OP may choose to update the membership as to the number of votes each entry has received, or may choose not to post those numbers until the voting comes to an end. By voting via pm, members should realize that their names will be listed in the results showing their vote and give prior consent to The Hosts to do so by voting. Any vote that does not allow for this will be disqualified.

 

You guys make it sound more and more like winning is everything... I think all told I have the lowest vote count of any Caw entrants and yet I have entered more than 5 of them and that is more than I can count on one hand... On the other hand I can count the number of votes I have gotten and never the two shall meet. I just don't like having to post my story on the forum... Plagiarist sites will be what they will be ... there will always be thieves so long as there is something worth while to steal.

 

I actaully could care less if I were to win. I actually enjoyed writing in the last one and really enjoyed reading everyone else's stories. I really like the idea of being given a topic and trying to write a story for it. That to me is a challenge in itself.

 

Glad you mentioned you CJ; if anyone personifies the spirit of the CAWs its you.

Weren't you first in with your story last time?

I look forward to your entry for CAW11

 

Which brings me directly to my point... It doesn't matter who wins... in fact I would hazard to guess that the person who wins has more pressure put on them to come up with something brilliant to write about. Think about these things before you call foul... I mean seriously do you really want to go to the trouble of coming up with something original? and then you have to keep track of fifteen odd writers or more and then you have to set up a poll and then... it's like the song that never ends... and while if given the chance I would come up with something diabolical on the order of Machiavelli, I'm not in any kind of hurry to do so. You gain nothing by winning except servitude to the other writers.

That said I want to say that I care and respect the previous winners of the various CAW's some of their shit is built with real bricks... the rest of you, and you know who you are will carry on with simple tricks and nonsense just like me till your fan base cries out for you to do something Epic... Gods help us when that day arrives.

 

I really like this, Ed.