More things are wrought by prayer(to God) than the world dreeams of

 

i dont beleive in a god because 1) if he has a divine plan, why should we pray? whats gonna happen happens 2) god supposedly answers prayers as Yes, No ,and Wait, so does a jug of milk 3)Science has physical tangible evidence and 4) why does he always need money? hes god, his son turned water into wine, why can't god turn rocks into bread?

 

Although this is an interesting spot...

that is actually one of the great things about religion...the ability to foster discussion. Wether or not the discussion breaks down into a whole vat of "he said, she said" or "that is just what I believe" the only thing that matters is that the ability to discuss the topic is one of the best facets of it.

To be able to discuss religion or lack there of; is great because people can offer up facts, opinions, or opinions in disguise. The best thing to do is that unless you are on a mission to convert everyone that you meet...talk, agree / disagree, and then move on. Other wise is it sort of like debating about which piece of kindergarten art is the best...it is all purely subjective and most people pick their own.

 

1.) I don't like people telling me what I can and can't do with my life. I especially don't like people suggesting that I am a "bad" person if I don't go to church/believe in god/etc. I am sorry, but I know I'm a good person, so that is a bunch of bullshit.

2.) The stories in the Bible have been around for thousands of years. For example, many ancient societies (Greeks, Egyptions) had a "Great Flood" story. These stories have been passed down from ancient cultures and adapted to the Bible. The bible is nothing but a collection of ancient stories, and even if they were real, it was hundreds of years before they could write the stories down. Ever play the game "telephone"? What is said at the beginning of the line is never what is heard at the end. As stories are told and retold over generations, the details are going to change. What was not lost because of that was lost in translation. Nobody speaks Arameic(spelling?), and many translations from one language to another eventually to modern language are going to inevidably lead to a mistranslation. So to say the Bible is solid truth and law is naive. Nobody knows what it really says or was meant to say.

3.) Almost all wars in history have been fought in the name of religion. The worst crimes against humanity were committed in the name of religion. That is sad. And completely contradicts what relgion "claims" it is all about. Loving your fellow man.

4.) Religious people, for the most part, are complete hypocrites. And for many reasons. Just one example is they will say "Thou shall not judge" in one breath, and tell you that you are going to hell for not accepting Jesus as your lord and savior in the next breath. WTF happened to NOT JUDGING?!

5.) The idea that I am required to worship a being, whether all powerful or not, OR ELSE I'm punished by burning for eternity in hell sounds awful arrogant to me. If there was a God, I don't think he would posses that kind of arrogance. Hitler wanted to be worshipped too.

6.) Religion completely ignores scientificly proven facts if they contradict what they believe. There is absolute scientific proof that evolution (both macro and micro) exisits. Yet they will say "nooo, thats wrong, it can't exist.." It can, and it does. Same thing with the belief that the Earth is only 5,000 yrs old. We can carbon date rocks. They have been PROVEN to be billions of years old.

HERE'S WHERE LEILA WILL GET FLAMED....but I don't care....

6.) The whole idea that Mary was a virgin mother, etc came out long after Jesus had been crucified. So really what you had was a dude walking around, claiming to be the son of God, and preaching his beliefs to people, making them act a certain way and think a certain way because of these new ideas. Does no one else think this sounds exactly like a cult leader and his followers?? If some guy today came out claiming to be the son of God, he'd be ridiculed and generally thought to be a nutjob.

7.) Mary got pregnant at a time when it was not acceptable to be pregnant if you weren't married. What if, and I know this is a stretch, this young teen girl couldn't reisist her own hormones, her and Joseph had a hot night rolling in the hay, and whoops! Mary is pregnant. She couldn't exactly tell the truth now could she?

8.) Religion has been around for thousands of years. It first began about the same time humans began to bury their dead and remain monogomous with their partner. So in essence, when the first steps toward "civilization" and away from a pure survivalist animalistic way of life. When humans began to love, and mourn those who died that they loved. That was a concept they did not understand. The idea that you would die and that would be it, the end, and you'd never see those you loved again was too much for them to bear. So the idea of the afterlife was designed to ease the pain and finality of death. Multiple dieties evolved (gasp, there's that word again!) to a single diety...whether that would be God, Allah, Buddah, whoever.

Now, I'll admit I've seen and felt things I cannot explain. But I still can't wrap my brain around this idea of God. Mainly because I don't like being told how I have to live my life, or that I am a bad person when I'm not, and because religion has become so much about money, and so full of hypocrisy. I hate labeling myself, but if people insist on labels I always say Agnostic. I'd love to believe it, but I'm too much of a scientist to believe in something without some sort of proof. When I get that, you'll see me in church next Sunday.

 

I dont believe in god either, leila i LOVE your reasons, i also cannot believe in something if there is no proof, when i was younger church was forced on me for a while, listening to things being read out of the bible almost made me laugh and i was only 8 or 9...when i have true proof and not just "it is the way it is because thats what the bible says" then ill believe it.

 

my parents screwed themselves, they encouraged me to learn on my own, which is something frowned upon by the church, and seeing as how i skipped barney and went for the discovery channel and nova on PBS(kinda like BBC i guess), i was filled with science not "faith"

as for the bible, if humans were to inexplicably vanish and an alien race landed on earth they would think that Superman and the rest of the comic book hero's were our gods, and thats all the bible is, a really lame comic book

 

I believe in G-d, the singular and indivisible, yet infinite and omnipresent G-d of the patriarchs and matriarchs Whose covenant defines my life more than anything else.

As you can probably tell from my above statement, I am a deeply devout Jew. I graduated from Hebrew (Jewish religious) school three years ahead of time. Now, I teach Hebrew school to sixth graders. Faith is deeply important me and is the most important part of my identity.

 

Since the 5 minute time limit won't allow me to complete my edit:

And I really hate religious people who tell atheists they are going to hell as well as atheists who assume that religion is mass dillusion at odds to science. If you are the latter, then you are likely a logical person, so learn something about religion (and I mean more than just Evangelical/conservative Christianity) before making judements. As a Jew I, for one, do not place faith and science at odds in anyway. Jews believe G-d created the world and the way it works, and science, the investigation of that world, is a way to gain a further understanding of its creator.

 

I was not trying to say all religions/religious people put science and faith at odds. In fact I hear more and more faithful people who believe as you do, that God set it all in motion, etc.

But there is still a large portion who won't hear it. Its those who I think are being very closed minded.

 

There has to be something better to beleive in then one person i mean come on. Why should we focus our lives around another person, shouldnt we have right to decide what we beleive in. I remember my primary school somedays we would pray 10 times a day. I hated it. The best kind of beleif i think is self beleif.

 

Of course

He made me didn't he? I'm here to tempt you into all your sins!:-D

 

I HAVE learned about religion. I went through 9 years of catholic school studying the bible for 45 minutes a day as well as being tested on it and having discussions. Add to that mass 3 times a week....I certainly LEARNED about catholocism. And at some point I realized it was illogical and silly. So I started studying other religions. Trying to find one that made sense. One that had answers to questions other than "because the bible/torah/etc says so". The closest I came was Greek Mythology. THOSE were gods I could understand. They were petty, cruel, vindictive. Some were gay. They used their powers selfishly and with no care for the consequences. There was a different god for everything. Not just ONE or a FEW that ruled every little thing. No all powerful, all seeing entity.

So, yes, I think religion is mass dillusion. And that's after years of research, questioning, studying, discussing. But I believe that "faith" and "belief" provide something for those people who can't face life on their own. I think it gives the weak strength. And I don't think that's a bad thing. I just think it's silly.

 

agreed

 

Ok, I just have to say this. But out of all the gods that are now believed in (and even the ones that used to be worshipped) you'd think ONE of them would bother to make an appearance. I mean if every religion in the world is convinced they're right (and everyone else is wrong) then that's a LOT of gods (not just one) that have been absent for most of recorded history (assuming you believe these religious books to be true). You would think ONE of them would turn up in all this time. Just ONE. You've got all the wiccan dieties, the hindu gods, the xtian god, etc. Add in all the religions from regions that are rarely access like the rainforest, etc. That's a LOT of gods that don't bother to show themselves. Strange how they're ALL against proving their existence.

 

But the Wiccan God and Goddess are principles and therefore are present always, but not as flesh and blood or whatever type of things Gods and Goddesses are made of.

I loved the movie: The Man Who Would Be King.

 

Did you also study the Eastern religions, Buddhism in particular. So many Westerners think that Buddha is a God to be worshipped, not.

 

Stop bashing Christians and people who believe in God, dammit! I am getting sick and tired of being called an idiot because I CHOOSE to believe in God. That's it, I'm done reading this, I'm saying something. WHAT FUCKING PROOF DO YOU ATHEISTS HAVE THAT THERE ISN'T A GOD? WHAT GIVES YOU THE RIGHT TO PUT DOWN OTHER PEOPLE'S RELIGION WHO LEAVE YOU THE FUCK ALONE? How do you explain everything you see in life? You think science is behind it? You think The Big Bang created everything in existence? Interesting theory but here's where it becomes a load of horse shit....What created the particles that blew up to create The Big Bang? How the fuck do you explain that with science? What, they just appeared out of thin air? Now that, is fucking moronic

Oh and to the atheists who didn't insult the God I believe in, thanks, and this post wasn't intended for you, just for those who have to constantly bash people because they believe in God when I haven't seen a single thread or post calling people dumb and crazy for not believing in God, okay well except this thread, but that guy doesn't represent all of us and well....you started it

 

ok I just realized, my post sort of resembles one of lovegun's

now I have to jump out the window for being so stupid, I have brought shame on my family for lovegunning this post up

however, minus the lovegun-esque parts of it, I meant every word, I don't see how it's so damn hard to just respect what I and others believe in instead of always trying to prove it wrong or call us dumb or bash it

 

This I know. Buddha was more of a philosopher (or phYlosopher as some say). He simply felt that we need to care more for our spiritual selves than our physical selves. I think a lot of Buddha's teaching were sound and some are quite brilliant. The idea of giving up material wealth for a better spiritual life is incredible and I think highly of those who choose to do it. But it's not for me. I'm sorry but I like my nice house with AC. I'm a westerner and we're all about material wealth. I wouldn't say my life ambition is to be a millionare or have everyone envy me. But I'd love to not have to worry about money and be able to buy the things I want (I know Buddha was all about ridding yourself of those wants). My wants may not be righteous and impressive but what can I say? I like having a TV. I like reading books. I like Playstation. I like having a car to drive to work. I think Buddha's simplicity is beautiful and certainly Buddhism is something I could get into if I could just conquer my attraction to entertainment

Put simply....I'm not strong enough to be a buddhist. And I'm not afraid or ashamed to admit that. I think it's an incredibly noble religion and one I have no qualms with....as it does not center around a diety. But as such I only loosely consider it a religion (if at all) kind of like I don't really consider the Jewish a "race" or "ethnicity"....no offense to Jews.

 

So, yes, I think religion is mass dillusion. And that's after years of research, questioning, studying, discussing. But I believe that "faith" and "belief" provide something for those people who can't face life on their own. I think it gives the weak strength. And I don't think that's a bad thing. I just think it's silly.[/quote]
Snoochies, sometimes the statements you make are way to broad and I consider them silly. You have no idea what some of us have lived through in out lives...I believe in God, and I'm not weak or silly...I take offense to that statement. I am a strong, independent woman. You're young, but you're old enough to give some thought to the things you say. My strength and independence came from my life experiences. Obviously, we have two different outlooks on life....I'll keep mine, thank you!!! I respect your right not to believe, and you'll never hear me putting you down for it.