tim for training and target practice the USgov. does not use hollow tips
they cost too much and are meant only to kill and severely injure
even the military does not use them for standard combat munitions

 

All the guys I know use the same ammo for practice that they use for carry. And again, when you buy in bulk ( a few million rounds) the price comes down considerably, not to mention that the actual cost of manufacturing hollow point ammunition isnt as high as the ammunition manufacturers would like us to believe. They sell "premium ammo" to the masses at a dramatic markup because they can, while Uncle Sam gets not only a massive discount based on volume but they also dont have to pay the rediculous markup for "premium" ammo. Its called "marketing." They also dont pay the retail middleman so that knocks the price down even more. There are a couple of distributors near where I live that sell bulk hollowpoint ammo in 9mm, .45 ACP, 357 magnum, .40 S&W and .38 special that is simply discontinued hollow point ammo from Winchester, Federal and Remington that was replaced by the latest, greatest new design to keep up with the times. Whatever they have left over for the now "obsolete" line of ammo gets packaged in bulk containers and shipped out to gun stores for rapid liquidation at pennies on the dollar, and the manufacturer still makes a profit on it. Its a great way to get realy good hollowpoint ammo on the cheap if you dont mind being a few years behind the "latest technology" in antipersonnel ammunition. Its still just as good as it was when they marketed it as "premium" ammunition in the first place. Its sort of like the practical diference between buying a Lexus over a Toyota. Same car but with a few added dressings and some fluf and a price tag twice as high. Again...marketing.

Local agencies dont get the same discounts so as a result they usualy use the closest thing they can get for practice, but will still use up a fair amount of the same ammo they carry just to make sure it shoots to the same point of aim and that it functions in their duty firearms properly. But they too also do get a discount. Juts not as big as the Government.

Try pricing Lake City 5.56mm M855 ammo for yourself and then consider that the military gets it for less than half of what you will pay for the same ammo. And you are just buying surplus ammo, not new manufacture.

 

Then they don't really know where their bullet is going to hit do they?

Try this. Take six or ten of different factory loads by different ammunition makers and see if you can sight in your gun by shooting a group. I think you'd be very surprised by just how much differently each factory load shoots. Same with different grains of bullets including hollow points.

 

you can laser sight a rifle in a clamp and fire 30 rounds of identical factory specifications and there will be some variation in the shots because even with todays technology there is no garuntee that all of the powder will ignite ate the exact same speed or amount
some powders do include a practical failure rate estimate of no more than 2% of total yield
some projectiles may be off by as much as 2 grams
even the best reloaders on earth can tell you that its the materials involved as well as either cold bore or hot bore shots

and yes they normaly do practice and qualify with the same ammunition that is used in the feild standard wad cutters

 

Correct. There is considerable variation from shot to shot in velocity. Match grade ammo or very carefuly loaded handloads are meant to minimize these variations, but they are still there no matter what and are often quite considerable. Wad cutters however havent been used since the days of the Smith and Wesson model 10 revolvers.

Black powder interestingly enough when properly loaded will produce more consistant velocities than smokeless.

 

Say LC-Nyphette2,
I'm not sure where your getting data from and not sure it correct, but as unfortunate and tragic as these various events are if more Responsible individuals were armed these incidents my not have happened!? You need to remember that most of what you sited were done by irresponsible individuals and I doubt most were liciensed gun owners. I've owned guns all my life and believe me, if it weren't for all the Responsible Gun Owners in this Great Nation or Ours it would have overrun with all sorts of Terrorists and Thugs long ago! It's the Responsible Gun Owners that keep this Nation safe!! All down through history, every nation that's confiscated guns tyrannizes the people soon after killing hundreds of thousands.

Here's a factual statistic: * Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18]
Go to - just[-]facts[dot]com[-]/gun[-]control[dot]asp#accidents
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I'd say this rather make the small number you sited rather pale in comparison but I will also be the first to state the other incidents probably would have never happened had there been more armed Citizens around.

 

Maybe I am just an old fart here, there was a show on TV many years ago called "The Rifleman" In this show a man that was filling in for the local law enforcement. He had what he thought was a grand idea. He decided that ALL GUNS had to be handed in when coming into town. There were some bad guys that first thought of causing trouble, they decided that since the entire town in the past was armed it was a bad idea. They came to get supplies and found that NO ONE was armed. So they laid in plans to rob the bank in town. This all was caused because some MORON decided to disarm law abiding citizens. The same damn thing will happen now if law abiding people are disarmed now. Just keep this in mind when you decide to vote on banning all guns.

 

So, we should control the guns and not the people? Sorry, but, I'm a firm believer if you criminalize guns, only the criminals will have guns. I'm not going to stand by and let the bad people have guns and me as a law abiding citizen be left unprotected. If some deranged asshole decides he's gonna come into my house, he'll be carried out in a bag. I don't go looking to kill somebody, but, I won't be taken out without a fight. If you don't like guns, don't own one. But, don't bitch when some asshole breaks into your house with an illegally obtained gun shoots you.

 

i in no way advocate the removal of firearms from the lawabiding and properly informed citizen

i do want to remove them from those that intend to abuse the privilage of firearms ownership or who posses them illegaly

 

Another thing to keep in mind... The US government is arming itself, readying for civil unrest. And, if they think you're in need of receiving a bullet, you're gonna receive one. And if you don't believe me, do a search. The social security administration just purchased, I think, 174000 rounds of hollow point rounds of ammo. They say it's because they investigate and arrest violators. We're talking about hollow point rounds. Those aren't for arresting people. Those tear shit up. They are planning for civil unrest. They know what they've created.

 

I think with all the articles I have read about how the government is preparing for "civil unrest " that they are planning mass murders of anyone that offers up any kind of resistance to the coming police state and oppression.

 

Of course the social security bureau is the people to fight civil unrest, no need to call in the FBI or local law enforcement or even the National Guard ,, just call in the paper pushers from the Social Security

 

The nations that typically buy our bonds, like China, you know one of our best allies, have stopped buying our bonds anymore. Big shock. we don't have the money to even pay the interest on what our country owes. They're going to just take our money. the money that some have worked decades to save 401ks, IRAs. if you have one, and you're able, I'd suggest cashing it out. If they'll let you. I've never been a conspiracy theorist. But, I've read some really convincing stories lately. It's at least worth checking out. I don't personally have any retirement account, but, if I did, I'd be looking into this. You may think I'm a nut or a radical, but, I'm not. I only know what I read makes a lot of sense. And, tax dollars alone won't keep our country going and the nations that do keep it going aren't our friends.

 

That's why it seems so unusual they'd be buying so much ammo. especially hollow points.

 

I have read a few articles that said something to the effect of the US dollar is fixing to be worthless and a complete collapse of Amerikas financial sectors is imminent. The government is prepared to kill all americans if they have to in order to wipe out freedom, a complete financial collapse is the catalyst to make it happen.

 

do people actualy believe the crap that they actualy spew forth

there is no secret plan to collapse the economy in the us
the different departments of the government are buying ammunition because of budget restrictions on other departments
social security admin. is being used as a shell company so that an already over budget TSA can up arm to more powerful firearms that are more capable of stopping a threat that is wearing body armor

most of the talk regarding the financial future of the nation is being done by anti-obama advocates that want for everyone to be afraid and vote him out instead of admiting that they just dont like him

 

The excessive amount of ammunition being distributed??

Say RR & Others,
Being a 66 yr Old Guy and student of a fair amount of Psychology, from many years back, it's really hard to know just how true some of these claims are or aren't?? I'm also a long time gun owner & re-loader and question many of the things that are going on. Especially with the situation in our government, being what it is, I'll believe Conservatives any day over Liberals or anyone or group that tends to side with them and I highly question TSA motives as I almost applied to work for them till I started learning what they expected of their employees and promptly said to hell with that! The specifics escape me at present but it seemed quite UnPatriotic, to me as I recall. I also highly question their need for all the amo especially being that the majority are HP in nature which is a non-standard police issue from what I read. I also know a couple of friends I can also verify that info with. Something sure seems awful strange why these different agencies would be stockpiling this much ammo especially considering the Military and LE certainly must have there own supply sources so why the need for all the excess with HP bullets??

It's common knowledge the major news media isn't bring the actual truth out but glossing it over to meet the desires of the Liberals and it's these fools, at least for the most part, that are catering to the Muslim's and oBummer who is not only an Illegal Alien Usurper but a Radical Muslim Terrorist Sleeper as well who is aiding and abetting the Radical Muslims to destroy Our Great Nation from within, by gaining a foothold in our society by taking advantage of our willingness to attempt to be understanding and far too willing to be flexible in our actions which they are taking advantage of to our detrament and destroy our Great Nation from within which just happens to be the Radical Muslim's Creed!! Isn't that coincidental?

Getting back to the ammunition it sure seems strange all these various groups would be chosen to receive any to begin with. It just doesn't make sense even to a deputy Sheriff friend!

Oh, before I forget, I've noticed that the LA term is used relating to gun owners and how they are supposed to behave. Let me make a very valid point in saying that the LA term is highly manipulative as it attempts to restrict the our actions as gun owners. The more correct term for gun owners is to be Responsible in our use of them rather than LA and the proof of the difference is that a Despot wants everyone to be LA and under their control but it is the Responsibility of the Patriotic Citizens not to obey Despotic control as is being attempted at present. Responsible individuals think for themselves and know what is right, LA individuals are hearded along into the pens. Just as the Colonist were very Responsible in breaking from my distant Relative so must we also take the responsibility to know when to step forward amidst corruption and regain control as the ruling power rather than being lead around by our noses with the LA term attempting to falsely restrict us. It's all a major manipulation to gain control and keep the sheeple in line.

Obama is a Psychopath in every sense of the meaning and he will not relinquish his power position without attempting every trick in the book and creating a situation so he can call for martial law an bring in the UN will more than likely be one of his main ploys to avoid steping aside should he loose the election. In fact we are basically under Martial law as is at present but it's happening very slowly so we are supposed to be unaware of it. Keep your eyes & mind open and aware. we all need to join forces as best possible!

 

SS administration and excessive HP ammo!??

Say MrTT,
I agree that there is something very strange going on and we are being lied to by the Liberal administration as the article I read about the SS's need for the ammo was based on Felon arrests that their 600 agents get involved with but the article also stated that when these agents determine they actually have a felon to arrest they are supposed to get in touch with law enforcement who have the jurisdiction to make the arrest rather than SS that doesn't have any authority so what the need for them to have all the ammo then?? Far too much misinformation going around that just doesn't make sense when you think about it? Also since when did SS agents start carrying guns??

 

hh9 yo need to stay away from the hindu cush

my knowledge of the reasons for the ammo purchases are from my suppliers and industry representatives for the ammunition and firearms manufacturers and not through any news organizations

several departments have surpassed their annual budgets and are "borrowing" from other departments which is why the ammo ordered by the ssa was delivered to the federal marshals and the federal prison system warehouse

it is actualy common practice at the federal level and has been done for decades when the need arises
1 agency is over budget while 1 is under budget the directors agree to the trade terms and the deal is made