The problem with all of the hysteria on the right, Stumbler, is that there's no factual basis for it. Ultimately it's unsupportable, unable to garner a larger consensus. It's simply not true that Obama is bent on transforming the U.S. into something socialistic nightmare, and even if he wanted to, he couldn't. It's simply not true that the federal government is growing into some kind of behemoth on steroids, fed by dangerously high taxation. All of this is mythology, and belief in it is limited to that same 20-25% of the population that has always believed it.

 

I have read that Tories everywhere where ethnic minorities who feared the power of the Anglo Saxon majority.

 

During the late 1960's and early 1970's there was a lot of foolish talk on the left about a revolution in the United States. This contributed to the backlash that benefited the Republicans.

I have no fear of a right wing American Revolution. What bothers me is that this seditious talk has not lead to a backlash benefiting the Democrats.

 

I never said you did. I just pointed out that two out of the four factors you claim are necessary for a revolution do not exist.

Then you tell me tenguy: What is the just cause for revolution that you see? What logical and rational reasons for revolution to you see, or believe others see?

Once again tenguy if its not the extremists calling for armed revolution (which is the actual topic here) who is it? Because we're not talking about a bloodless revolution are we. In fact we just had one of those when US citizens kicked the conservative/Republicans out of power.

We're having another one right now converting to alternative fuels and renewable energy right before your eyes.

What utter bullshit tenguy a complete and total fantasy. First, I don't think your average American is going to his gun cabinet and come out of it with rocket propelled grenades and IED's. So who do you think these revolutionaries ought to buddy up to? Iran, Syria, North Korea? Maybe Iraq will help out.

Second what we're seeing in Afghanistan is what we should have known to begin with which is just how ill suited a military like ours is to conducting what amount to police actions, where our use of force is severely restricted.

I don't think the US Military or Government would hesitate to quash a revolution with absolutely overwhelming force.

And bottom line you know what? I think the vast majority of citizens of this country actually love it to much to turn against it just because Barack Obama got elected president.

 

There's also no parallel between the insurgencies in Iraq and Afghanistan and a home-grown one. Within the U.S., the federal government has the ability to eavesdrop on everyone every minute of the day, and to crush any incipient revolution they unearthed. The government might even choose to leave some vestige of a revolutionary group out there and use it for propaganda purposes, a la Goldstein in 1984.

The only remotely credible scenario for a revolution in the U.S. is probably a military coup.

 

And as far as a military coup something I was really impressed with was when Gen. McChrystal's and his staff's comments came out no one I saw with any relationship to the Military tried to defend him at all. On the contrary it was seemingly unanimous that McChrystal had to go. And the primary reason given is the military must be subservient to civilian authority.

 

Any revolution would have to be a coup situation with a military backing. People in the military are educated and trained to follow authority and no General in this country could last in power why seething hatred toward the country they risk their life for. In other countries it is military leaders out to get something for themselves or such bile leadership that the actions have the support of most of the people. Were a country that wants to kill people who burn the flag and lock up people forever for practically nay crime. Most citizens are not going to stand for people who want to destroy democracy and the Constitution. That what makes some of these fringe people so sickly stupid, if they were truly the quiet majority they would have no problem changing the government through elections.

The fringe on either side of the political spectrum are just like way too many people on the planet, they think either everyone is like them or the others are nuts. This makes them think they have way more support than they actually do and that people against them are viewed by them in gross extreme characterization. So it is common for the far right to believe everyone in the armed forces is far right, which is a joke. It is easy to think everyone who votes Republican shares their views, another joke.

In some ways I find so much of this talk very humorous. A bunch of people full of deep hatred for most other people wanting to overthrow the government. Most of their motivation seems to be because they want their social security and Medicare benefits increased more. Two government programs that relies on the very same people they hate to support them.

 

And to McChrystal's credit, he didn't try to pull a MacArthur, but just faded away. Things like that give me hope for the future.

 

I think this is an excellent analysis and we actually saw all facets of it during the Anti war protests and civil rights movement of the 1960's as well as groups like the Black Panthers, the Weathermen, and insane leaders like Charles Manson who actually thought he could start a race war and revolution.

The Black Panthers were just literally blown away by the Police and even though I was as much a police protester as war protester back in those days I could not and would not support people or groups that resorted to robbing banks, blowing up buildings and/or killing people.

And those groups and the individuals who formed them were for the most part very short lived.

But looking back then with hundreds of thousands of people protesting in the streets, race riots, Watergate and the Vietnam War all going at the same time we never even came close to any kind of real revolution. And a decade later the protest leaders were working on Wall Street.

 

You know I was actually a little stunned by everyone's reaction including McChrystal's. He didn't make any excuses, admitted his error, and resigned. I have to admit it bolstered my confidence that the US Military does hold civilian authority above military authority.

Which is a really good thing I think.

 

McChrystal did the right thing, he disagreed with his boss, he did not deny it, he got fired and he walked away with his dignity intact.

 

You know I think that actually now represents the true difference between Republicans and the Tea Party. The farthest right 20%-25% of the Republican Party fell out into the Tea Party where they've become branded with just such outrageous and irrational and illogical rhetoric.

We see it here all the time. Just absolutely irrational, illogical, sometimes even impossible arguments that don't stand up to any kind of logical test.

 

Somehow I sincerely doubt that any test if logic would escape you.:excited:

 

Perhaps it is what "They" want!

 

Since when is justice determined by some kind of majority vote? :lol:

 

1) IEDs aren't hard to make. The Internet abounds with recipes. As for where to get heavy weapons, import them via Mexico or via the various mobs. Russia has better quality control, anyways.

2) As for the military, it sorts depends, based on conversations I've had. If used by the government for "police actions" as you put it, they'd probably sit it out, or more likely become a third side. ("Can't listen to the boss; the boss is crazy. On the other hand, can't let those nutters win, either. Simple solution? Martial law for the duration.") If it was another whiskey rebellion, that they'd probably have no problem just crushing outright. They don't want to be involved in another Waco (which was an operational clusterfuck, on top of everything else) but at the same time they're not going to ignore a legitimate threat to the Constitution.

As for ignoring civilian authority, they'd try to avoid active mutiny, but they have no problem coming up with "creative" solutions should they be called for.

 

A majority vote is a better way of determining justice than a coup by an armed minority.

 

Let me calculate this for you.

Opposed 33 1/3%
For 66 2/3%

Why is this not a majority? I'm sure you don't think it should have been unanimous, do you?