It's funny because when I was married, the guys would get together for some beers and bitch about how were weren't getting laid.

Why is that funny? Well, I worked in an office that was predominately women and they would get together and bitch about how they weren't getting laid too!


I think it's got a little bit to do with the wiring differences between men and women. Men have a cut to chase approach. Methodical and calculated. A to B means C we should have sex.....


Women are different. It can have different paths or roads. Common themes are typically gestures that express appreciation or affection. And it has to change up. The same gesture, action, won't garner the same response.

It can be building something for her, buying something for her, saying something to her, giving her a massage, listing to her and taking an interest in her besides the need to bed her. It can be direct or indirect but, it is always about her.

And in some ways it can be a change for the negative. If you ignor her or flirt with someone else. Having someone else show interest in you, it steers them in a direction.

Where men tend to make mistakes is becoming complacent. Taking what works for granted. We become one trick ponies.

So, you have to get off the freeway or direct flight at times and take a different approach.

And sometimes it's work. And sometimes it's the make up of the woman you are with. They simply don't have the same libido as their partner.

You have to find satisfaction in other ways. If it's enjoying each other's company. If it's a hand job or BJ or just cuddling and knowing your partner cares for you and shares affection for you but, simply doesn't engage in sex, the release from masturbation could be a way to keep the edge off while maintaining a happy and health relationship.

There is no right or wrong. It's finding what works and making it happen. And sometimes it's coming to terms with the partner you are with. Some seek knowledge and reasoning and ways to make it right. Others, including your partner can find it exhausting and frustrating to keep examining it over and over.

I find my moods vary. I have horny days and they can last for a couple of weeks. And other times, I can go without for a while. And sometimes there are conflicts when I'm horny and she is menstrating heavy and just feels like shit.


So maybe take a different direction?

 

I do think mainstream culture has some catching up to do as regards the underlying reasons why men want and need sex in a relationship.

This may be because many men express their need in physical terms when actually their need relates more to self esteem and emotional need - neither of which are seen as traditional 'manly' priorities.

On Rothko's point that it often isn't easy to just leave a relationship - absolutely. I wouldn't want to give the impression that any of this stuff is easy.

 

Let me state that I have acknowledged in other posts the suffering of many women by men who won't satisfy even their most basic needs for sex either of which I'd know nothing about as I consider my lovers needs just as essential and vital to her ego. Lets face it this all gets more compounded by the fact of the roles that we're supposed to assume as men and women taking into consideration the extremes of the types who use their lovers as mere tools for their own pleasure and manipulate them. If you've gone into a relationship and the sex starts to wane over time its perfectly understandable and unforgivable to commit adultery based on a shift in frequency or intensity at the first signs of trouble, however it also not advisable to ignore the signs of more serious issues. This requires the other person not shutting down or simply brushing it off as nothing and communication is vital at this point, especially if the other shifts from 60-0 without warning such as telling a man, "You can just jerk off" which is the equivalent of me throwing a dildo at my wife in her time of need and saying, "You can figure this out right?"

The needs of our lovers are their rights and our responsibility that should not be minimized, dramatically changed or ignored without discussion of a solution or at the least an acknowledgement of their suffering as well and anyone who doesn't agree with this really lacks the grasp of a mature sexual relationship whether in a loving or purely sexual environment. For any man or woman begging for sex should ever only be acceptable if it's a part of a more elaborate S&M role play not a matter of fact of daily life and knowing this the wiser of the two lovers will always speak up so that they should not be ignored.

 

Let me add that I can always tell when I've posted something thought provoking as it brings out the same half dozen antagonists with the same half dozen excuses for why I'm being stupid which tells me that they are more then likely the problem in their relationships and not the solution. Just as well as it brings out more quiet voices who have felt the suffering and that makes all the name calling and goating worth while.

 

These kind of threads and responses from so many men make me realize how many women truly sometimes only think of their own wants or needs. Like if a woman was told.... if you make me mad i will neglect to mow the lawn or pay for our home. How would a woman feel then?? Cause to a man yes, sex can be just that important as a woman's desire to feel they are being taken care of and their home.

Never in my life would i dream of withholding sex as a form or punishment or just simply dismiss my mans needs. I understand women go through times in their life where maybe they don't have a interest in sex but it does not mean that you can't find it it your heart to give him some sort of pleasure at least a hand job for fuck sake!!!!!

I think some women think of it as a power trip. Well I'll show him that I'm not just here for sex!!! Well I'm sure she can clearly see ....while sitting in her comfy chair, sipping her warm tea or coffee, watching her nice TV, eating a yummy little snack that.....helloooo obviously he takes care of her and builds a home life for her. The least she could do would be to help "build" his orgasm!!!!!!

 

Sweetpassion - your post stirs a lot of thoughts.

In my own marriage withdrawal of sex isn't a power trip or punishment. After years of trying to work it out, I finally concluded my wife is fearful, scared of intimacy and lives with a hormonal imbalance and subsequent lack of desire. I certainly don't hold her morally culpable beyond my sadness that she isn't able to overcome her fears and discuss the subject openly to find solutions. But I love her and accept life on these terms.

I can understand why you say what you say but in one particular way your assumptions are similar (if opposite) to those held by my wife. In her case she has never experienced sexual intimacy so can't imagine what deprivation of it feels like. As a result she is a million miles away from understanding the importance of sex in a relationship.

Equally, you can't conceive of any reason to deprive a man of sex apart from punishment or power play because you can't conceive of a life without sexual feelings.

I can understand why you feel that way and yes, despite all I say it would be wonderful if my wife were even slightly as sexual as you x

 

Great post......fear and poor health feed off each other like two parasites keeping their host vulnerable.

Combat both of them as much as you can and if there is no improvement in libido then it is time for some honesty and more radical solutions!

Thinskin

 

I wish I had said that way before now.

I wish you had said that way before now.

 

I am having some difficulty understanding the thought process underlying the relationship decisions some posters seem to have made. If satisfying sex is as important to a healthy relationship as some posters suggest, then put it on the list of non-negotiable deal-breakers. If the sex doesn't meet, or doesn't appear to meet, your needs on an on-going basis, then don't pursue the relationship. If sex is not a high priority then don't put it on the deal-breaker list. And then don't complain about being in a sexless or near sexless relationship. Or make other arrangements for sex without your relationship partner, whatever they may be (affairs, prostitutes, polyamory, etc.).

I am also having difficulty understanding the concept of romantic love without satisfying sex. Physical sex and emotional romance reinforce each other. This has been shown scientifically by some sex researchers. The trust and honesty that underlies (or should underlie) emotional romance leads to the lowering and reduction of emotional barriers, inhibitions, fears, etc. and that can lead to more satisfying physical sex. The endorphins that are released during orgasm, the hormones such as oxytocin that are released during the extensive touching during foreplay, sex itself resulting in orgasm, and afterplay, and the pleasure of orgasm as a reward to the risk of emotional pain that betrayal of trust could cause, all feedback to emotional romance and make it even stronger and more enjoyable. The strengthened emotional romance then further reduces emotional barriers, fears, etc. leading to even more satisfying sex and the hormonal/biochemical highs that reward emotional romance. And on it goes in a virtuous circle.

There are asexual people. I think VenusInFurze has so described one of her partners. I would hesitate to label their relationship as traditionally romantic. The key issue is sexual compatibility. If both partners are asexual or both sexual, then there is compatibility. If one partner is asexual while the other is sexual, then there is incompatibility. Both partners need to assess this before they commit to the relationship, and agree on what to do if one partner becomes asexual (or becomes sexual) causing incompatibility during the relationship. I have a sense that many posters married quite young (whether chronologically or emotionally) before either partner truly understood what it meant to be married.

 

Very eloquent and I made a somewhat similar observation in an earlier thread of Milo's on cheating!

There is an added level of complexity regarding compatibility however! It is not just sexual and asexual that complicates this issue. In many long term relationships, sexual compatibility is hampered by neither partner taking the initiative especially where both partners are sexually submissive. Frustration builds and manifests itself as an argument! This anger and frustration must be channelled positively but this is difficult in a sub/sub couple. In such cases an honest assessment of one's personality and some third party help, like counselling, can lead to sharing the initiative because not everyone can take the lead comfortably!

Practice, practice, practice!!

Thinskin

 

Thank you Sweets I really appreciate when a woman can as well acknowledge that these situations do exist rather then the multitude of denial from those who are the issue and the sympathizers that endorse their cause. Take note that this is not a sweeping indictment of all relationships as to the cause, but enough that I could start a support group with many chapters worldwide I assure you. Thanks again

 

Your response is layered and much more complex than simple logic would suggest in an imperfect world of egos and time: (By paragraph)

1. While knowing ahead of time may sound simple on its face we don't start long term relationships with a conversation of negotiating sexual terms as to most this would seem to forward and assuming our lover has had the experience of at least all the sexual possibilities.
2. Physical sex and emotional romance while having the potential of reinforcing each other are the basis for studies in Love and Lust where as love resides in what we refer to as the heart causes physiological and psychological changes. Lust however starts as a physiological response that does not necessarily require love as a precursor to affect changes, it's comparing apples to oranges which only common denominator is they grow on trees.
3. As for the asexual personality explained very well by @VenusInFurze I would tend to think and to hope such disclosure from them long before committing to a long term romantic relationship.

 

1)
Yes! We do! At least those of us who are emotionally mature and intellectually developed. During the dating phase of a potential long-term relationship, the conversation is about less consequential topics as the parties are in short-term mode. When one or both parties see a substantial potential for a long-term relationship, then the conversations will include the negotiation of sexual terms, children, shared finances, and the like.

2)
I feel your intention was to (somewhat arbitrarily) dismiss my argument, but I see how you actually support my argument, and even strongly so. Yes, apples and oranges are different fruits but both grow on trees and both share the plant physiology of tree growth and flower pollination. When sex and romance do not reinforce each other, as might occur when the sex is accompanied by negative emotions (or perhaps no emotion at all as in commercial sex), sex and romance are more like the different fruits. The negative emotions might be the result of one partner needing to beg the other for sex, of one partner being bullied into providing sex, of one partner's sexual needs being neglected (i.e. no orgasms), etc.. When sex and romance do reinforce each other, as occurs when sex is accompanied by positive emotions, then sex and romance are more like the common denominator trees and flowers.

3)
The same answer as in 1) because sexual versus asexual is part of the sexual negotiation.

 

Not that I would say jerking off is a beautiful expression of our sexual needs but its not the defamatory act you say it is. I'd elaborate if it were necessary. I like the banter here though, do you all go to the pub together afterwards?

 

Great points John. And typically at the beginning of most relationships, it's pretty easy to determine sexual capability.

It's when you become domesticated and other factors affect things. Stress from work, stress from finances, stress from kids, stress from not having sex, stress from knowing your partner needs sex and you have no desire for it.

Stress has a way of affecting people in different ways. For me, I can jerk of a few times during the day or when I'm out of town working because I'm stressed about work. Stressed about not being at home and other obligations not getting my attention etc. So for me, I need more sex. Not less.

And there is the psychological elements. I'm horny. I need it. My partner isn't in the mood but, she gets my fibe and will play along. But, sometimes that isn't good enough for me. Knowing my partner is just giving it up because I'm indicating I need to get some, I feel like I'm getting a pity fuck. So, I'd rather not have sex.

Why can't I just go along with it? Get laid and be happy? Kinda crazy isn't it.

And it happens over time. It's not sudden or over night. Those back in the day dinners where you looked into each other's eyes and both couldn't get enough of each other. Hung onto every word that was said and couldn't wait to lay next to each other.

That gets replaced with, I've got Pilates tonight, the kids have karate, can you pick them up? Can I use you car, mine it out of gas, we are out of milk, can you pick some up milk and put some gas in the car, I have to leave early tomorrow for work. Can you make sure kid A has money for a field trip? And don't pack kid B lunch with apple anymore, he doesn't eat them and gets wasted. Etc.......

The one night the grandparents take the kids, you think it would be great to go for a dinner and movie ends up grabbing take out and watching Netflix and passing out at 9:15pm. Then get woken up by the dog at 5:35am whining to go for a leak.

Crawl back into bed and snuggle next to you honey and whisper don't you miss morning sex? The answer is yes but, I miss sleep more. Just give me 5 more minutes. You wake up, have a quickie or maybe get a blow job and get back on the merry go round........


My point is, it would be great if sexual capatibility remained mutual and consistent over time. But, it doesn't.

And believe it or not, there are men that can't be bothered to have sex with their spouse. And that leads to their wife feeling insecure and trying to grab her mans attention decides to let go of trying to make herself attractive because he doesn't notice anyways etc.

So, it's funny because I've always be up front and open communicating with my partners past and present. What makes me happy and not. Asking what makes them happy and not. But you can have the best communication in the world and it can still fall apart.

It's so easy to point out what wrong and say the key is communication etc.

But, there also has the be a willingness from both parties to take action.

Edit: just to ad: and if only one is willing to walk the talk, it's not always so cut and dry and what to do. When you have financial and family ties. You might work together in a family business or something.

This is where infidelity and other less favourable behaviour creeps in. There is a lot at stake. And it's not easy to just tell someone, put up or get out.

 

I'm sorry but this song is just so fitting for this thread.

 

The best answer I can tell you @Sweetpassion of why sex and love can never be so easy is all in our human selves which spans the emotional divide at any given moment between needy and giving. But I'd like to think that our discussions here help the occasional soul to realize they are not alone and that others may have a solution that works in their own predicament.

 

I wasn't online all weekend or I'd have been participating in this conversation much more.

I don't think it's traditionally romantic, either, but it definitely is romantic. (As I look at the roses he gave me for Valentine's Day...) I don't know if I could have this relationship with someone other than him, though, or if he could have it with someone other than me!

If I were monogamous, I'm not sure I could have a long-term relationship with an asexual partner. Sex is important to me. The physical part, the orgasms - I can masturbate, whatever. But the interpersonal connection, the particular kind of intimacy - that I would miss. That I'm not sure I could give up forever.

But that brings me to the sentence I highlighted: and agree on what to do if one partner becomes asexual (or becomes sexual) causing incompatibility during the relationship.

The desire or ability to have sex can end in many ways. People get into accidents, get sick, and get injured - that can happen at any time. People age, too; not many are having sex at 90! I think, in a relationship that both people intend to be life-long, it's not only a possibility but almost a certainty that sex will be off the table at some point. And that should be considered, and discussed. Not decided right away, necessarily - I don't know if one can decide that kind of thing years in advance - but realize that the decision will eventually come.

He didn't tell me right away, but I had the feeling early on, and when I asked, he told me. I think he was relieved that he didn't have to pretend anymore, and I was glad he felt like he could be himself with me. I do wish I'd known earlier. I wish he'd had the confidence to say it, that he hadn't felt like he had to pretend.

I certainly would recommend talking about this in advance, if you can. I am not 100% sure that I'd have gotten involved with him if I'd known. But I am sure that if I hadn't, my life would be the poorer for it.

 

I've never made a man wait. I'm ready anytime and just about anyplace too. But I have the opposite problem here, I have to wait for my husband.