Dante, I think you are going way over the top. I dont agree with you that the sentence "blacks have a high crime rate" makes sense. Its got nothing to do with political correctness and everything to do with a generalisation that you apply to black people all over the world (seeing as we are on a global forum). You have to contextualise geographically otherwise you are just using an average figure of crimes per black person over the whole world which is completely useless data.

If you compare crime rates you have to do it by location and then by ethnicity if thats what you want to do. You can not do it just by ethnicity alone because the numbers you come up with are redundant in any meaningful study or discussion.

And I am NOT fighting the simple maths. I have already stated, which you conveniently miss, that I agree that neighborhoods with high rates of ethnic minorities have a higher crime rate on average in many parts of the world. That is not in dispute. My problem is that DL uses this data to 'prove' that blacks are inherently and inately criminal. This is putting two and two together and making 5. It's not me fighting the maths.

I'm arguing from a hitsorical and social context (not a philosophical one as you suggest) whereas DL uses data to jump to conclusions that are almost definitely false.

You need to calm down a bit and try and see the bigger picture.

 

You arent the arbiter of truth. Thank God!

 

For a starter its contextualised geographically. Albeit within the United States.

 

Your arrogance knows no bounds, a community of successful black people is an anomaly because it does not fit into you paradigm but fits the one of your detractors. How can you, the king of stats to ignore the ones you disagree with. It just don't seem right, unless of cause you have noticed that poverty creates crime, very little need for a rich man to rob you isn't it, they normally do it the legal way.

Racist twat.

 

Point out where in what I stated the "jejune" name calling. Also is it childish to point out that you continually make racist remarks.

 

I dont think you understand what the phrase "the exception proves the rule" means. The 'prove' bit comes from the Italian word, provare, to find, or find out, and means that an exception finds out the rule, in other words, proves it to be wrong. So, as you have said, the exception proves the rule. Unfortunately for you, you thought it meant exactly the opposite of what it does mean.

You're a genius

 

You're right. The usual translation is "the exception tests the rule"...i.e. subjects it to the proof.

 

The bold bit I will agree with. The evidence clearly states blacks commit more crimes than whites.

The rest of your post is conjecture and unsubstantiated theory.

I have linked the country of Gabon, a prosperous African Nation. All black. They don't appear to have anymore crime than any other country.

Explain that if your theory is correct.

My rebuttal to your claim is that racism results in prejudice and bigotry in the work force, resulting in fewer blacks being hired, thus leading to poverty and crime. This poverty leads to resentment towards the racist, which brings more racism.. the problem is cyclic.

I understand your logic DL, but I must state it is faulty.

If I were to put up a chart stating wars started by ethnic group, and it shows many wars in the past 20th century were started by white people, by your logic all white people are warmongers. If white people move to a certain country, that country will eventually go to war.
Which is completely false.

But I'm sure you can see the similarities between your statements about blacks and my fabricated example.

 

I have done a little digging and found some interesting articles and documentation supporting my claim that poverty and lack of opportunity are the true reasons for the elevated crime rates. Furthermore, the actual arrest rate is higher for whites than blacks in the USA and the hispanic white population's woes are overshadowed by the prejudiced stereotypical focus on the young black man.

"It's important to realize that what reporters choose to include in the stories they cover helps shape public perception of race and crime issues.

In many communities, people of one race are unlikely to mix on a daily basis with people of another race. One way each race learns about the other is through the media. Crime coverage is of tremendous interest to people of all races and may affect their perceptions, even when that is not what the writer intended."

"In many minds, the image of a dangerous, violent criminal is that of a young black man. Advocates for the vast majority of young black men who are not criminals blame the media in part for this image.

The FBI Uniform Crime Reports track reported crime and arrests for most U.S. law enforcement agencies. The reporting system is incomplete, but it provides some insight into who is being arrested for crimes.

The FBI reported 9,306,587 arrests for everything more serious than traffic offenses nationwide in 2001. Of those arrested, 69.5 percent were white and 28.1 percent black."

I have thus far established that there is a prejudiced stereotypical view of the young black male that exists. I understand that 2001 is dated, however, more recent dispersed documentation still supports these claims.

Demographics show that there is a correlation between poverty and crime and that it is the intersection of race, poverty and crime...

"The intersection of race, crime and poverty is part of explaining the whys. The 2001 Current Population Survey report from the U.S. Census Bureau called 'Poverty in the United States' says that in 2001, the poverty rate was 7.8 percent for non-Hispanic whites, 22.7 percent for blacks and 21.4 percent for Hispanic."

I didn't mention this earlier but another thing to consider is, "Poor people often do not have significant political clout and have a difficult time getting their voices heard in government."

Baller made a comment similar to, "the working class is a problem that needs to be fixed". It is indeed a problem that needs to be fixed because it is the reason for the higher crime rates.

People need to be given the opportunity to succeed without resorting to crime. People need to be looked at fairly and given a clean slate free of preconcieved notions. Also, people need to have the right to be heard by politicians and others in high offices.

No no no... Blacks are NOT the reason for higher crime rates. As I said, blacks don't even have the highest arrest rate. What about the hispanic population who have serious woes? Why no mention of this group by racist people?

The answer to both of those questions is skin color and prejudice... Lastly, racism is part of the problem, not the solution. I mean, denying blacks equal opportunity suppresses them and keeps them in poverty.

Everybody deserves equal opportunity and voice as all of society will be better off for it... Carry on!

Ref: http://www.justicejournalism.org/crimeguide/chapter04/chapter04.html

 

Ah, well - DL, you're listing data that shows some effects on people resulting from other underlying social issues and claimining that the effects are the reason. In other words, you're blaming blacks for the effects on them resulting from other underlying social issues such as lack of opportunity.

 

And before anyone points out "there is plenty of opportunity" I will say this statement is false.

It is well documented that people of colour tend to be overlooked for employment opportunities, promotion, scholastic achievements, and various other opportunities white people get.

Tis the reason why our country implemented affirmative action in the hiring policies of federal and provincial level career opportunities.

 

I've tried this argument on DL on several previous occasions, sweetie. But by all means, fight the good fight. I'm with ya.

 

Oh, who care about the silly argument anyway? Let's get naked and lick each other...

lol Well, I think we've won... My last post (#450) sunk the DL ship imho.

 

Well have to follow up on this when I have lots of time....

Which, unfortunately, isn't now.

 

You know, whatever DL says now will seem extremely stupid... I think too that DL is smart enough to know that it's time to cork the bottle on this one. Right - DL??

Carry on...

 

I believe you'll find that blacks have a higher crime rate "globally" and so I'm not sure what you're arguing. Actually, I'm quite sure about what you are arguing. You are arguing that DL is using high black crime rates to infer that blacks are naturally more criminally inclined. Whether or not this is the case will not change those high crime rates. Crime rates which you admit. And that is the only point that matters between you and me. I hate having to repeat myself but as I have said twice already, if you wish to debate about WHY though crime rates are high, do so. But do not debate about the crime rates being high, because it is not open to debate. Just a practice of bad semantics.

Your continuous assault on the statement "blacks have a high crime rate," just makes you look silly. It may not be as in depth or politically correct as you would prefer, but read in context, it is a naturally factual statement.

 

Actually Carrie, and I hate to be the bee in your bonnet, but your article only supports what DL has been saying. You have not proven that black crime rates are lower, in fact, you have agreed with Dl and proven what we already knew -- quite the opposite. While black crime makes up 29% of arrests, when these statistics were done, blacks made up only 12% of the population. And in case you do not see the significance of that statement; it means that blacks commit crime at nearly a ratio of 3 to 1 in terms of populace. While whites, making up 75% of the population commit only 69% of crime, thus the white crime rate is much much lower than blacks per person, at a rate of less than 1 to 1.

I'm afraid all sociological statistics are meaningless if you do not include a per capita control. Your article in fact agrees that blacks are much more likely to commit crimes than whites.

You are indeed correct that the same is true of Hispanics, though I think the last thing we need to do is bring yet another race into this discussion.

While I agree that poverty is clearly a contributing factor to crime. It is a chicken and egg argument and it must be acknowledged that being black/hispanic, seems to be a contributing factor to poverty. Is this merely coincidence? Or are you refusing to ask a bigger question when you demand that impoverished minorities receive help? In the way of political correctness, civil rights, and affirmative action, the poor blacks have received more help than the poor whites ever did. So why was one able to pull itself out of poverty while the other was not? I think you do logic a great disservice when you cling to the notion that everything is the "other guys" fault and that minorities have no responsibility for their lack of progression.

 

Umm... Nope, no difference globally. Why the focus on blacks only? Hello, other ethnic groups such as hispanics have high crime rates and for the same underlying social reasons.

Black black black... Geeze, you seriously are blind.

The following reference is to documentation regarding these race and crime issues in europe.

Ref: http://muse.jhu.edu/journals/race_ethnicity/v002/2.1.goodman.html

Carry on...

 

Oh, one more thing... The influx of blacks into western europe began after WWII, not just recently. Yeah, the english do know wtf they're about CH4. I lived in the USA for 5+ years as well and can read objectivity.

 

Not sure why I even bother.