When I fly off to the oilrigs we go through a full check. Pat down and scanner. Also our bags are thoroughly checked by hand. Then even though I've been in the middle of the North Sea with no access to the outside world I'm checked again as I fly back to the UK. I have no problems at all with this even though it seems excessive. Safety is paramount.

 

I see you are a better hypothetical evil mastermind... hehe..

I paraphrased you that's why I said "sort of" - but you repeated what you said and it's clear now. We can't agree on that one. I am against racial or any other form of profiling. If there is surveillance - let it be for all equally or none at all - on that level of intimate intrusion...
More separating and profiling will always cause more friction and hatred, even if you don't think so.

 

And I have no problem understanding and even agreeing with most that you wrote here. There are nuances we might disagree upon - but no need to further the derailment (which this little sub debate why I wrote "NATO=USA in popular people's opinion" was - since you asked) and the one I mentioned as a better derailment - sexual debate among some members - also off topic, but very slightly connected to the scanners... or better - inserting fingers into some female parts... It was a "by the way" remark on my behalf...

This answer doesn't disproove what I wrote - namely that NATO is largely percieved as US pawn (as you rephrased it). Sure - we are talking about the same people - the ones who feel the might of that pawn on themselves - Middle East, some parts of the Balkans, etc. And I can agree that their perception is in some aspects justified (and I can even share it to some extent).

I would be most happy if all military alliances are dismantled, nuclear weapons and all other WMDs sent to outer space and in a few centuries no more national armies and in another millenia or so - no weapons on planet Earth - wouldn't this be cute... but yes... dreeeeeam, dream dream dream... I know.

 

Thank you for the civil discussion of a hot topic.

 

You're welcome. :rose:

 

wuz be happenin now? who I be fighten with *opens bleary eyes*



SOMEONE UPDATE ME >.<


kreig? tenguy? jesus christ "yo" avi dude?

 

TSA guys.
They all go on the creeper list

 

View attachment

 

xD and the TSA girls?

 

What not to wear? Clothing a security line issue

What's in style at the airport? Clothes that get you through security with minimal hassle

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A TSA officer searches a passenger at a security check-point Monday, Nov. 22, 2010, at Seatttle-Tacoma International Airport in Seattle. There are new requirements at some U.S. airports that air passengers must pass through full-body scanners that produce a virtually naked image. Those who refuse to go through the scanners are subject to thorough pat-downs. (AP Photo/Elaine Thompson)




Daisy Nguyen, Associated Press, On Tuesday November 23, 2010, 3:07 am EST
LOS ANGELES (AP) -- It was no crime of fashion, but Wendy Gigliotti's bulky sweater and ankle-length skirt made her a target of airport screeners.
A female Transportation Security Administration officer at Sacramento International Airport told her, "We can't tell if there's something under your skirt." She was then frisked in a way she said felt more intrusive than a physical exam.
"I felt not only like a criminal, I felt absolutely violated," said Gigliotti.
Gigliotti is among the travelers feeling mortified or even outraged by the more thorough security pat-downs the TSA began using this month as the holiday travel season begins.
Travel experts say the new scrutiny underscores the need for better airport fashion choices that can help people breeze through screenings with their dignity intact.
Clothes loaded with metal studs are suddenly a no-no, as are bras with underwires. Slacks instead of skirts are preferred. Any baggy clothing can require extra inspection.
"It's difficult enough to fly right now, so let's be sensible about it," said Susan Foster, author of "Smart Packing for Today's Traveler." "Let's minimize all the hassle."
Melissa Wood of Marina Del Rey said she prepared for a possible pat-down at Los Angeles International Airport on Friday by wearing tight jeans, a snug sweater and slip-on sheepskin boots. She said she made sure to take out all belongings from her pockets and stuffed them in her purse before reaching the conveyor belt.
"I don't want any problem when I reach the checkpoint," Wood said.
Another passenger evoked the Disneyland rule.
"We should dress to the airport like we dress for Disneyland, and by that I mean dressing comfortably with a good pair of shoes," said Aliise Becker, who wore a turtleneck, blue slacks and coat for her flight from Sacramento to Los Angeles. "The days of dressing to the nine to travel is a thing of the past."
The new search technique allows airport security screeners to use their palms and fingers to probe for hidden weapons and devices around sensitive body parts, including clothed genital areas and breasts. In the past, TSA officers brushed along those body parts with the back of their hands.
Opponents argue the more intensive screening violates civil liberties including freedom of religion, the right to privacy and the constitutional protection against unreasonable searches.
Federal officials insist the procedures are necessary to ward off terror attacks like the attempted bombing of a Chicago-bound plane last Christmas by a Nigerian man who stashed explosives in his underwear.
Recently, a San Diego County man who resisted the groin check, telling an officer, "If you touch my junk, I'll have you arrested" became an Internet hit when he posted tape of the confrontation online. On the Alex Jones syndicated radio show, a frequent flier complained that a TSA officer put his hands down his waistband because he was wearing baggy sweat pants.
Gigliotti said she wasn't aware of the enhanced security measures, so she was shocked when the TSA officer ran her hands up and down her legs last week.
TSA spokesman Nico Melendez said that they have not received any written complaint from her.
Los Angeles City Councilwoman Janice Hahn noted the public embarrassment that can come with additional security on Wednesday as she and city officials sought to ease the public's concerns on the issue.
"I go through the lines like everybody else. I have to take off my shoes. Sometimes I forgot to check the condition of my feet. I have to take off my jacket. Sometimes I forgot that the blouse I wore wasn't meant to be seen in public. But you know what, these are small inconveniences, these are small embarrassments in light of what we're trying to do," she said.
David Stempler, president of the Air Travelers Association, said he has been hearing about women complaining of TSA officers searching under their skirts.
"It certainly is a problem, that's why I recommend going through the scanning machines," Stempler said. "They're well vetted and they should be more comfortable than these aggressive pat-downs."
Some passengers and flight crews are fearful the imaging machines emit an unhealthy dose of radiation. The government insists they're safe, but agreed on Friday to let uniformed pilots skip the screening.
An Internet campaign is urging airline passengers to boycott the physically revealing scanners on the day before Thanksgiving and insist that any pat-down they receive as a result take place in full view of other passengers.
On Twitter, many joked that they might as well show up to the airport in their birthday suit.
Clothing options that may not be wise are T-shirts selling on the Internet that mock the pat-downs. One provides guidance to TSA officers to "firmly grasp" the buttocks, while others riff off the "don't touch my junk" line, including one for Fondle Airlines, motto: "Fondling junk since 2010."

 

Well, you're thinking with your heart and not your head. Which is often admirable but in this case dangerous. While it is "democratic" to search everyone, it is unreasonable. Because all our resources and man power are finite, we must spend them wisely, and it is much wiser to spend extra resources checking up on the people who are likely to be terrorists, than it is to check up on 3 year olds from suburbia.

Frankly though, everyone seems to miss the main matter. Not a single terrorist has been arrested at an airport in the U.S. since 9/11. I would call that successful. And as the saying goes, "if it aint broke, don't fix it." As far as I see it, we had no reason whatsoever to add these scanners. The terrorists were not arrested in the U.S. because they did not bother trying anything through U.S. airports once we stepped up our security. They are not stupid.

And so nothing has changed, they still will not try to sneak things onto planes here. But what about cargo? Or putting the bomb in fuselage? Or the more obvious thing, attacking different targets? Subways? Crowd bombings? When they used the planes we were caught with our pants down because we are always one step behind. They will try something new now, while we spend billions on invasive airport security to pat down grandma. This whole operation is just an example of a wasteful and thoughtless government. At the end of the day, they are invading your privacy for no reason. And I'll I see from supporters of this is overt racism(ironic). The idea that these people are so stupid that they will walk through an x-ray machine with a bomb up their ass. They are not stupid, they are no longer trying to sneak things onto U.S. planes personally; what they are is laughing while we grab each others crotches and spend billions to do it.

 

Ok. Still - "segregation" of even the most "justified" sort would never get you friends, only more pissed off and insulted - possibly hateful enemies.

Very probably, but also your companies installing these scanners and guys getting fat provisions are laughing, too.

 

This is the America that the left protested so heavily against under George W Bush. Being treated as if we're criminals, the patriot act, all that great stuff. Now that Obama puts his pen to the patriot act and does nothing to help us gain back the freedom to be treated as if we're innocent until valid reason is given to suggest that we're not, it's the right complaining about it and the left is silent as can be.

Hypocrites.

 

Who on the right has complained about the Obama extension of the Patriot Act?

 

BTW, what happened to the big protest planned for holiday travelers?

Kind of fizzled, didn't it.

Which goes to show that not all the hype, pushed by the media, pans out as planned.

 

It also goes to show that we have become a nation of pussies.
Not that the threat of imprisonment or death is not real to those who stand up to the industrial military complex.

This is our new reality.If you want to fly,you have to do this.I`m pretty sure the pat down option is temporary.
If you want to enter this building,you have to do this.

Soon,If you want to enter this Mall,you have to do this.
If you want to walk down this street,you have to do this.
If you want to operate a motor vehicle,you will have to have this installed.

The headlines are already filled with reports on "America Terrorists" plotting attacks against us on our soil.This will increase until we all have to have an ID card or an implant that screens us everywhere we go.(Just to be safe)

As major corporations gain even more political and military power,it will be their rules that become law of the land.Most of these new laws will form around whatever product or security device they are selling.
We have already seen just how little our Congress and Senate has to do with anything these days.

The term "Informal Meeting" in the white house really means "Private Meeting" where any elected member of congress who is holding on to his or her last shred of morality can be paid or threatened off.

We are at the threshold of the new world order,this is how it started.

 

The way this was all rolled out makes me feel like it is all about government control of the people.

Look at the history we have here with the community organizer.

The swine flu that we were all supposed to get the shots (I refused them) and how many people took them without question??

Also what amazes me is that the ACLU is sitting on their hands on this one, WHY??

I refuse to fly but I distrust the government more. Little by little they are taking our rights away on the premise of safety. What happens when one of these animals decide to put a bomb up his ass?? Will the TSA start with drop your pants and grab your ankles???


All I know is people were pissed off when GW started the patriot act there should be just as much now as then pissed off.

The government needs to be put in their place as the Constitution says. :excited:

 

Flying is a privilege, its security is provided by the government. If you do not like it DO NOT fly. It is not your right, it is your privilege, no one gives a shit if you give it up.