Shooter had an appointment with his cardiologist today and the subject of vaccination came up.
After a long discussion it boiled down to;
do what you think is best for you. This surprised Shooter. But the cardiologist explained it this way;
You are strong and healthy now, probably not much to fear from Covid, but then on the other hand, you've been careful so far, why push it?
Plus, Shooter is determined to see New Zealand next year, and see can he return to Australia, you know, if they've forgotten that unfortunate thing about kangaroos, and getting vaccinated can only help.

 

Over 50% of the country's population tuned in to Rutte national address yesterday and we are basically closed until mid-January!

Hard lockdown unavoidable, says Dutch PM, ruling out foreign travel until March

Prime minister Mark Rutte called on everyone in the Netherlands to work together to combat coronavirus in an address to the nation on Monday night, and urged people not to make plans to travel abroad until mid March at least. Speaking from his private office in The Hague against a soundtrack of chants from anti coronavirus rules campaigners, Rutte said that he hoped this would be the last time he would have to speak directly to the population. The Netherlands, Rutte said, is going into lockdown, involving all places where people come together. The aim, he said, is to reduce human contact to a minimum and so try to prevent the virus from spreading. ‘We realise just how far-reaching this decision is, particularly given that we are in the Christmas period,’ Rutte said. ‘This has been a year of sadness and mourning for many… and one in which stress and loneliness have moved through all the generations.’ Rutte urged everyone to keep to the rules, and said that the majority of the population are doing their best. ‘It is not an innocent flu … as the demonstrators outside seem to think,’ the prime minister said, referring to the noisy group chanting outside his office. The new measures will remain in effect until January 19 and, Rutte said, he and health minister Hugo de Jonge will hold a press conference on January 12 to outline what the next stages will be. Schools The most far-reaching measure, Rutte said, is to close all schools, colleges and universities until January 18, with the exception of people taking exams or involved in practicals. All non-essential shops will shut, but markets, chemists and dry cleaners and launderettes will remain open. ‘This is a hard message for some shops, but this is what we have to do,’ Rutte said. The scope of government support measures is being widened and the greater the loss, the more support shops can apply for, the prime minister said. All public buildings will close, but libraries will remain open to exchange books. Hotels can stay open but can no longer provide their guests with food or drinks because ‘too many people are using hotels to eat out’, Rutte said. Funeral parlours will remain open, and vulnerable groups will still be able to attend community centres, he said. All jobs involving physical contact but which are not of a medical nature will also be closed for the five week period. Cannabis cafes and restaurants can remain open for takeaway services, as they are at present. Groups outside must be no greater than two, which means you can walk with a friend. as long as you keep 1.5 metres distance, Rutte said. Outdoor sport for adults is also limited to two, but walking and cycling are still to be recommended, the PM told viewers. Travel too remains a controversial area. ‘Stay at home and don’t travel unless necessary,’ he said. ‘Of course, if you have rented a house for Christmas you can visit it, but while you are there, stick to the rules as well.’ Foreign travel Travel abroad for all but essential reasons should be avoided up to mid March,Rutte said. ‘The risks and uncertainties are too great,’ the prime minister said. ‘We will also ask our neighbouring countries to make sure their people do the same,’ he said. From Tuesday, everyone arriving in the Netherlands from outside the EU will have to provide a document at Schiphol airport showing they have tested negative for the virus. Working at home must once again become the norm and public transport is again being reserved for essential journeys. ‘We have to reduce work related infections, which are still far too high,’ he said, and appealed directly to employers, urging them to make it possible for people to work at home. The prime minister ended on a positive note, telling his audience that things ‘will get better’. ‘There will come a moment when coronavirus is behind us,’ he said. ‘2021 will be a year of hope, when there is light at the end of the tunnel.’ ‘In the coming weeks, it is all down to reducing contacts and we have to help each other to do this,’ he said. ‘We will get through this together, and for each other.’

https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2020/...tch-pm-ruling-out-foreign-travel-until-march/

Thinskin

 

@tenguy

You have been out of circulation for a long time and are really rusty. Otherwise you might have read the thread and you would know how stupid this is and how long ago it got buried for the duck and dodge bullshit it obviously is. Heart disease and cancer are not contagious you phony old fool. You can have either one of those and it is no danger to anyone else at all. But if you have COVID 19 you are endangering everyone within six feet of you and everything you have touched.

So instead you try to deflect and distract from the fact we have more COVID cases and more COVID deaths per capita than any other country. For one very simple reason. Trump chose to deny reality, and lie to the American people and paralyze the federal government from dealing with it. But you would prefer not to blame Trump for that. After all he calls himself a Republican and that is good enough for you.

Now this actually is true. Just look at the millions who are willing to commit treason against the United States of America, commit violence and terrorism, Martial Law and Civil War because they have a shared psychosis with Trump the most literally and clinically mentally ill president in US history. Who because he is mentally ill can't accept the reality he lost.


And now let's try something that does look like good news and I think can make a big difference. Especially while we are waiting for the vaccine to finally get to the general public.

FDA grants emergency authorization to over-the-counter, at-home COVID test

*I admit I got kind of excited when I saw this thinking well there's the answer to Christmas right there. Hell everybody just run down to the drug story and buy a test kit so we know we could safely gather. And it won't be out in time for Christmas but I see it as a game changer for helping stop the spread. And this is where President Biden and his national plan comes in. As president he can order factories to start cranking out this kits and get 30 million out instead of just 3 million.

https://www.axios.com/fda-emergency...est-60152fdb-b691-4954-8068-b4d350c57ee2.html

 

I wish shooter would hold his horses. New Zealand is certainly worth seeing, it's absolutely gorgeous. But it takes 18 hours from here, and probably another 6 hours from Shooter's state to get there. One way. Sitting in a tube circulating the exact same air as everyone else breathes for 24 solid hours is risky. And there's some 350 people all in that same tube. Only one has to have been exposed to Covid. And Covid can be transmitted by air. So Shooter and I sit on opposite side of the fence here.

Then again, I've been there done that. Shooter needs to, so it's understandable.

 

Well, but there isn't a reason to go just now. They have a mandatory 2 week quarantine, which means we could go, but sit in a hotel room and look out the window.

Shooter goes that far, he's gonna wanna do Tampon stuff.
You know, horseback riding, swimming, rafting, and so forth.


So we gotta wait til that quarantine is lifted, then we probably gotta resolve that thing in Australia from the last trip, and then we'll go. hopefully next fall.

 

It is NZ summertime......you might even run into a bit if cricket.

thinskin

 

I wouldn't bank in quarantine free entry to NZ any time soon.
The Cook Islands , who have no cases , will likely be first , after the new year some time ,
then Aussie , probably in the first quarter , around March , if they (and we) stay free of it.
So you can see how protective of our hard gained freedoms our authorities are ,
With good reason.

As it is we have numbers , up to a dozen of import cases arriving in quaratine constantly , even under the strict criteria in place .

So there is no real support for easing restrictions to anywhere that has any recent cases ,
and with what has happened repeatedly in so many places ,
so many times ,
all around the world , where restrictions were eased to soon ,
don't expect any softening of our stance.

Just take the Pakistani cricket team.

They had special exemptions ,
They arrived supposedly having ALL had four clear (negative test) before departure.
Within days had 4 or so positives,
and in the end , 10 members were covid infected.


Look at the UK.
Have started to look like getting a handle on it several time , eased restrictions , including foreign travel to Europe , to soon ,
and repeatedly got worse.

Now there's a new strain arrived there which it seems spreads even faster ,
just to add to their terrible waes.

Only time will what that strain will actuall do , cause , or not.
It's all theory and speculation at the moment ,
and we all know where theory and speculation has got the world in the last 11 months.
(the US better hope the new "Denmark Virus"
dosen't get there , with their record for letting it spread)

Some may remember , months ago;

I pointed out the huge potential risk , with this thing being allowed to spread and keep on uncontrolled and escalating ,
that with its constant evolving ,
it could suddenly produce a new version , variation or mutation , that was more dangerous.

That is still a constant threat , untill it is eliminated , or at least well controlled.

In fact it is always a risk , as the emergence of covid 19 proved in the first place ,
but now ,
with millions of cases all around the world , it is a hugely magnified risk.

And if Mink can catch it , and then pass a new version back to humans ,
how many other species around they world might be susceptible to similar at any point in time.

It seems that with many countries seemingly basically waiting for vaccines to control it ,
it will be several years before we really know how hard that is.

What percentage will get all the required shots ?
is the first question.

How many shots will they need over time ?

How long will each course of treatment be effective for , months , a year , several years ?

What percentage of those getting all the required shots will be fully protected ?
and

In reality , what percentage will actually provide true herd immunity ?


Those are all legitimate questions that will only be known over time ,
and
which could greatly effect our ability to control or eliminate it.

Without elimination one way or another ,
it may be another ongoing problem like the influenza types.
So we'll need constant updated vaccines regularly for the forseeable future.

And with covid types record of dangerous mutations ,
be at constant risk of SARS n SERS type outbreaks everywhere ,
which while being short lived ,
we know can kill 30% or more of those infected.

Imagine a New York type outbreak of a 30% killer in any of the world's major population centers.

It dosen't bare thinking about .

So take care people.

You can greatly reduce the chances of catching it ,
and spreading it if you do.

It is up to you to be responsible for you , your family ,
and your community.

With , or without government or authority restrictions.

Remember ,
to get the benefits of any vaccine ,
first ,
You have to survive long enough to get the full treatment.

 

Holy fuck
the UK over 20,000 for the day

mind , on per capita , that's still less than half the rate of the US ,
not that that's any solice.

Meanwhile I see the US death rate is now over 2,500 on the moving 7 day average.

Nearly 18,000 dead bodies per week.

surely that has to be bordering on criminal negligence of authorities
not that many Americans seem to care

Bye the way , what the fuck good dose a late night curfew do ?

That's always had me puzzled.

So you can go out n catch n spread ,
every day ,
and then you must go home , or wherever , to spread it amongst family n friends.

That'll help huh

exactly how?

 

If there was a Democrat for President Republicans would already be screaming for murder charges against him. Because this disaster is snowballing. Right now its hitting the red states hardest that have the fewest health resources and just keeps getting worse and worse. And then because we are wondering all over the country we can't seem to get it knocked down anywhere. We are months away from getting enough vaccines out and could be looking at 2,000 day for a month or more.

But while the deaths are most dramatic its the 200,000 cases a day that prove "conservatives" over here in the US are actually spend thrifts that just love to throw money away. The medical costs for treating COVID cases in a hospital are astronomical but its like Trump and his Quislings just can't get enough of them and do everything they can to get more.

 

Yeh , I never understood the stupidity of the
oft repeated claims that taking action was
" ruining the economy" ,
and other such nonesense .

The death toll is only a small
(though not insignificant)
part off the cost of such an out of control and ongoing pandemic.

Worse will be the
(so far mostly invisible)
long ongoing aftereffects for a significant portion of those infected
(survivors)
who have debilitating outcomes lasting many months , to many years and rest of life.

And the obvious ,
the immediate and ongoing actual costs
to all sectors , not just the medical professions , but the whole industry ,
and many other , airlines , shipping , tourism , infrastructure , et al


As have already stated before ,
apart from the obvious , lack of tourists ,
one of our biggest costs , is controlling the borders , to prevent incursions and community reinfection.

So while so many are in a spiral of neverending costs of inaction ,
we're stuck with a neverending cost of purotecting our success ,
and our freedoms we've earned.

While with only a total of only a few hundreds of local community cases , and 25 deaths ,
our hospitals , health sector and morgues were never over overrun or seriously threatened ,

our border facilities have had to deal with about 90,000 incoming ,
providing facilities and staff for them ,
and for the dozens (100s ? ) of infected amongst them ,
and
ongoing daily.

**
A bit of good news today ,
latest figuring has reduced the expected peak of unemployment caused by this
to under 7%
from the expected "at least" 10%.

I expect it may go down more , as kiwi adjust , and learn life with covid in the world will not return to its old ways.

Particularly , tourism won't be a big easy moneymaker for a long time.
Better get on with something else.

So we're are already reaping the benefits of the government millions to support preserving as many jobs as possible ,
and of course ,
so is the government itself , with continued tax returns etc , as a result.
The good old-fashioned money-go-round.

You have to keep it going around in tough times ,
so it can keep going around when the good times reappear.

 

On a day that broke the record for deaths and infections, almost 3500 and a quarter of a million respectively, here is a window into the White House's train wreck that has been the US covid-19 response.........herd immunity leading to herd mentality leading to sick leave.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.po...ointee-demanded-herd-immunity-strategy-446408

Thinskin

 

Take a look at this one because there's the phony hypocrite @tenguy interjecting politics on this thread and yet it remains in the GD. Why is that? I will tell you, There is one set of rules for tenguy and other rules for the rest of us.

 

Hey @tenguy why do you get to put politics into this thread and yet it gets to stay in the GD? Why is that?

tenguy said:

More people die from preventable heart disease and cancers, than were killed in all of the US’s wars combined.

where is your thread about that?


tenguy said:

I knew that was coming, but also know that you couldn’t post something that didn’t some how blame Trump.

tenguy said:

Which is precisely how mental illness is transmitted, nothing new here.

 

OK this morning I went to the hospital with the offspring, appointment with the surgeon.

Very well organized with screening on the way in and a well thought out one way system throughout the various departments.

Everyone is masked here and so far our fatalities due to wearing a mask are zero.

Thinskin

 

Information from last couple of days:

We have secured orders for 15 million vaccine doses ,
enough for all kiwi , and our Pacific neighbours.
Cook Islands , Nuie , Tonga , Fiji , Samoa etc

and enough to allow for any of those vaccines that don't prove successful/safe.

The first will be the Phizer ,
in the first quarter ?
which will be for border and frontline health workers etc first.
The special freezers for that (8 I think) are already here (in NZ waters) to be unloaded after Xmas.

Plans are in place for the general public rollout for everyone , probably starting towards middle of the year ,
depending on when available ,
and local Medsafe approval.

Just announced ,
Borders will NOT open untill vaccine has proved successful .
and widely taken up of course.
(One of the problem areas ,
is that it is unknown yet ,
whether the vaccines (any , or all of them)
will prevent carriers from still spreading it ,
for a period after vaccination.
That is ,
it is highly possible that infected people may still carry viable virus within the nasal cavities , which can still be spread.
This question has been known/asked for months,
so is not a new one)

At least now we know the plans.

* * *
Interestingly ,
Sadly , Aussie , New South Wales , has just got a new comunity outbreak ,
in the northern suburbs of Sydney area.

Just goes to show how difficult it is to open even local borders.
Other Aussie states already restricted movements from that area ,
after only just opening up again recently.

We will be watching that and hoping , , ,
because it could delay our Aussie Kiwi free travel bubble yet again.

 

This was a great thread for the GD @slutwolf but unfortunately there's no way the Trump supporters won't make it political so it will have to be moved to Politics.

 

This should stay in GD, covid isnt political, its made political, ...assuming civility, this thread is of concern for the world and belongs in GD

 

Then how do we handle things like this? Certainly news worthy since we are dying out here. But also speaks directly to Trump's incompetence.

JUST IN: Pfizer Claims Millions More Vaccine Doses Sitting in Warehouse Awaiting US Government Shipment Instructions

https://www.mediaite.com/news/just-...awaiting-us-government-shipment-instructions/

 

...because you are posting about Trumps incompetence, it belongs in Politics, see how that works, ...covid information is fine and belongs in GD, when political blame is assigned it belongs in Politics, really not tough at all,

If you like, you can PM me your potential thread postings and I can advise where it belongs

 

Personally I think the old advice is still the best.

If it ain't fucked

Don't fix it

ps.
should we have a new forum for medical threads ?
and another new forum for transport threads ?